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  1. #1

    Default Daughter Wants to Live with Her Father

    My question involves a child custody case from the State of: California

    I'll try not to make this long. I live in Oregon and my daughter lives in California. My daughter is fourteen and does not want to live with her mother. Her mother and I were divorced in Nevada but before we were divorced, she went home to help with family, we split up a short time after that and she claimed her time in California as residency. My daughter was 2 at the time. At the time I had to do the divorce in Nevada because my ex was uncooperative and that was where I lived so I needed to take care of the custody in California. I did not have the money for that at the time and when I called around SoCal for help and they found out I lived out of state they wouldn't help so I spent some years at the mercy of my ex to see my daughter. I would see her a couple times a year where I would go to California and she would come to Nevada for some time in the summer. Every year though my ex would become more controlling with out time together. When she was ten I got an attorney and went to family court and got some time with my daughter that my ex could not control. It wasn't as much time as I wanted. I would do a lot of things different if I could go back. I was pretty wild when I was younger and married someone that is not stable during a time that I made some bad decisions. I can confidently say that I'm not that same person but my ex is worse than what she was. She had some things happen in her life that has made her unstable. My daughter is now at the age where she knows she needs to get away from her. She had even called child protective services on her own mother. Her mother found out it was her. My daughter thinks the CPS officer told her mother because she didn't tell anyone else about it because she was afraid. Anyway, I don't want to ramble to much more about that because as I learned, sitting in court with this information is a different story and there is much more to this story but it would be too long so if there are some question, I can answer them.

    My daughter is fearful of the backlash that she gets from her mother and when they did a counseling session for the court when she was ten, she made it sound like everything was ok. There were some accusations made against me that were not true and she got my daughter to corroborate. It put me in a weird position. I completely understand because she was ten and afraid. She was just protecting herself. My daughter calling CPS gave me the confidence that she is strong enough mentally to tell the truth in court and she expressed that she wants to. I've always encouraged her to tell the truth, even if it makes me look bad.

    I remarried eight years ago and had four more kids. Both of us are educated and have a very stable home life. My wife now is an amazing person and very intelligent. The schools we live by are some of the best around the Portland area. It will be a much better life for her as she is loved and wanted.

    So, why am I on here? Why don't I just get an attorney? Because after spending considerable amount of time in that courtroom, I noticed something with that judge. If you have an attorney, she is fairly ruthless. Maybe she sees the attorney as a challenge but when someone didn't have an attorney, it was completely different. She empathized with them and listened to their input much more than they did with us who had an attorney. My time there was such a crap show because of the conflicting stories that the judge was left to ask my ten year old what she wanted. She wanted to see me and it was suggested a slow ramp-up to get to know me again because my ex said she hadn't seen me in years. She didn't need to get to know me, I had years of pictures of us together but the opposing counsel lied and said they did not receive them so they weren't admissible. I couldn't believe what was happening at the time. I thought my attorney sucked so I got a different one for the next round but the result was the same. This time, I'm going in on my own. If the court is going to make the decision based on what my daughter says, then I'd rather just give her the opportunity to do it.

    I'm just looking for some advice. Do I just use a paralegal to file for custody or is there another path to take? Is there something that my daughter needs to do? She has been asking about it constantly when we talk.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Daughter Wants to Live with Her Father

    Your experiences with the judge, which sound very unusual in that most judges do not appreciate people who appear without legal counsel, happened four years ago, from my read. How do you know you would get the same judge with this same attitude? I would think someone should never go to family court for anything relating to custody of a child without representation from an attorney versed in that state's courts, law and procedures.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Daughter Wants to Live with Her Father

    You need to show that there has been a significant change of circumstances before you even start ... and then, you need to show that the change is so drastic that it warrants a modification of custody. And THEN you're asking to relocate her out of state?

    I do not see this happening unless Mom agrees.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Daughter Wants to Live with Her Father

    I understand if I’m looking from yours, and probably most points of view. The judge is still there but there is always a possibility of getting someone else but I’m confident it will be the same. I fairly confident that I will stay with my decision. That could change as things get moving. I just believe based on my experiences that my daughters testimony will be the deciding factor. If her testimony confirms that she wants to stay with her mom because things are good, I can’t see any attorney arguing our way out of that. Why would they because then I’d look like the liar.

    As far as significant changes, there was and is more than enough of circumstances that should warrant a change of custody. Just a few things, sex around my daughter at a young age, drugs, ex-con boyfriends ect. And I brought all that into court with letters from some of those people around her that contacted me to get my daughter out of there. When my daughter said everything was good, it made it look like all that wasn’t true. There is more but just to keep it short I’ll stop there. I don’t have a criminal record or any violent history of any type. I’m going to walk back into the court with that same stuff plus the stuff from the last few years. I did not pry this information out of my daughter, I just focused on building a strong relationship with her and she just started opening up about things. If she testifies that everything I brought and said is true, that I believe is going to be the deciding factor.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Daughter Wants to Live with Her Father

    Quote Quoting Bisraelwalter
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    I understand if I’m looking from yours, and probably most points of view. The judge is still there but there is always a possibility of getting someone else but I’m confident it will be the same. I fairly confident that I will stay with my decision. That could change as things get moving. I just believe based on my experiences that my daughters testimony will be the deciding factor. If her testimony confirms that she wants to stay with her mom because things are good, I can’t see any attorney arguing our way out of that. Why would they because then I’d look like the liar.

    As far as significant changes, there was and is more than enough of circumstances that should warrant a change of custody. Just a few things, sex around my daughter at a young age, drugs, ex-con boyfriends ect. And I brought all that into court with letters from some of those people around her that contacted me to get my daughter out of there. When my daughter said everything was good, it made it look like all that wasn’t true. There is more but just to keep it short I’ll stop there. I don’t have a criminal record or any violent history of any type. I’m going to walk back into the court with that same stuff plus the stuff from the last few years. I did not pry this information out of my daughter, I just focused on building a strong relationship with her and she just started opening up about things. If she testifies that everything I brought and said is true, that I believe is going to be the deciding factor.
    Dad, do not bring up anything that happened prior to the last custody/parenting time hearing that you had. Anything prior to that date will not be considered to be relevant. Only things that have happened since that order was made will be relevant.

    Also dad, you really do need to understand that you living in another state makes it much more difficult for you to win. When push comes to shove, do you really believe that things are bad enough at mom's that your child would be willing to leave her school and her friends?

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Daughter Wants to Live with Her Father

    Quote Quoting Bisraelwalter
    View Post
    I understand if I’m looking from yours, and probably most points of view. The judge is still there but there is always a possibility of getting someone else but I’m confident it will be the same. I fairly confident that I will stay with my decision. That could change as things get moving. I just believe based on my experiences that my daughters testimony will be the deciding factor. If her testimony confirms that she wants to stay with her mom because things are good, I can’t see any attorney arguing our way out of that. Why would they because then I’d look like the liar.

    As far as significant changes, there was and is more than enough of circumstances that should warrant a change of custody. Just a few things, sex around my daughter at a young age, drugs, ex-con boyfriends ect. And I brought all that into court with letters from some of those people around her that contacted me to get my daughter out of there. When my daughter said everything was good, it made it look like all that wasn’t true. There is more but just to keep it short I’ll stop there. I don’t have a criminal record or any violent history of any type. I’m going to walk back into the court with that same stuff plus the stuff from the last few years. I did not pry this information out of my daughter, I just focused on building a strong relationship with her and she just started opening up about things. If she testifies that everything I brought and said is true, that I believe is going to be the deciding factor.
    You had people writing letters as testimony? How did that even get allowed into evidence, as it is hearsay and should be inadmissible. I agree with llworking. Do NOT mention things from the last hearing. That decision was made based on whatever had happened at that time. You need to focus on things that are new, relevant, and enough to grant a change of custody. You may be shocked at how high the bar is set for some things. My kids were exposed to pornography in their dad's house and CPS said "he didn't FORCE THEM to watch it", it was just on while they were there, so it wasn't anything they would investigate further. Is the "ex con boyfriend" a threat to your daughter? People go to prison for tax fraud, that qualifies them as "ex cons" but hardly a physical threat. Do you have proof of drug use? There is a lot that needs to be more than just accusations and hearsay.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Daughter Wants to Live with Her Father

    Because putting a 14 year old on the stand to testify against her parent is such a great idea.

    As far as changing custody goes, you're not being realistic at all. I'm not even sure that you understand what a custody mod entails. You're not going to march into court and try to re-litigate the past ... that's just not going to happen. It's just not how it works.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Daughter Wants to Live with Her Father

    You need to seriously consider the possibility that your daughter wants to live with you because she doesn't like mom's rules. And she may be having normal teenage conflict with her mom that she is blowing way out of proportion.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Daughter Wants to Live with Her Father

    Quote Quoting Dogmatique
    View Post
    Because putting a 14 year old on the stand to testify against her parent is such a great idea.

    As far as changing custody goes, you're not being realistic at all. I'm not even sure that you understand what a custody mod entails. You're not going to march into court and try to re-litigate the past ... that's just not going to happen. It's just not how it works.
    I'm being completely realistic and I have a pretty good idea of how it works. And thanks for the snark about putting her on the stand. It was the court who did that when she was ten and they thought it was a great idea but it sounds like you really know what you are talking about so what do they know.

    Quote Quoting Mercy&Grace
    View Post
    You need to seriously consider the possibility that your daughter wants to live with you because she doesn't like mom's rules. And she may be having normal teenage conflict with her mom that she is blowing way out of proportion.
    Oh, I can't believe that I've never thought of that.

    Look, I regret even posting on here. I shared way too much information and there really is no way to get across everything to you. The fact that someone on here would say that they can't believe that something would be admissible as evidence when it was, proves that there is so much more to the story and I should have kept it simple. I can understand why you are responding the way you are but my question was advice on how to proceed, not what I should or shouldn't do. A professional response would be you are not going to give advice for that because it is a bad idea. Another professional response would be that you would advise against doing that but this is what you want to do. My story completely distracted everyone from the real reason I came on here.

    If you are able to provide that information, great, if not, please just ignore this thread. You guys are a third opinion. I've already got things rolling and I'm dealing with an attorney but I'm not going to court with one. I just like to hear multiple ideas and confirmation because I don't trust attorneys but they are a necessary thing.

    This thread will still be here so in about 9 months ( maybe longer if they decide to) I'll come back and let you know what happened.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Daughter Wants to Live with Her Father

    I'm sure.

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