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  1. #1

    Default Ticket for Re-Entering a Freeway from an Exit Lane, VC 21461(A)

    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: California

    The circumstances of my ticket are the same as https://www.expertlaw.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=186754, where the officer claimed I was not following the "Right Lane Must Exit" when using the Holly Street exit. I followed the template in submitting a trial by written declaration, but long and behold, I was found guilty.

    Did something change since the post was posted or is this type of thing a hit or miss?
    Is it worth it to do a trial de novo? (maybe have a lawyer represent me?)
    Last recourse is to do traffic school of course...

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    832

    Default Re: Ticket for Re-Entering a Freeway from an Exit Lane, VC 21461(A)

    Did you change lanes past the black and white sign that states "do not exit"? Since you were found guilty by a TBWD I assume you did. I guess the thing to think about for you is it worth your time to do a trial de novo to hope the officer doesn't show?

  3. #3

    Default Re: Ticket for Re-Entering a Freeway from an Exit Lane, VC 21461(A)

    "Do not exit"? You mean the "Right Lane Must Exit" sign? No, I was on the rightmost lane well before that sign. I followed the rightmost lane all the way without changing lanes until I was pulled over.

    The officer was merging into 101 from Holly Street here: https://goo.gl/maps/8SwNBaoLFjt and immediately pulled me over when I did not exit right after he merged.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Ticket for Re-Entering a Freeway from an Exit Lane, VC 21461(A)

    The sign looks like https://www.tapconet.com/store/produ...mab&sku=310753

    And based on the street view in google maps, it seems like the sign has the correct dimensions.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    19,000

    Default Re: Ticket for Re-Entering a Freeway from an Exit Lane, VC 21461(A)

    You keep harping on MUTCD, but there's no requirement to strict adherance to MUTCD. You can certainly make a claim that the sign that doesn't comply may have been difficult to see/interpret, but the fact that they didn't follow the standards isn't per se exculpatory.

    21461 doesn't say what you claim it says. Regulatory "as defined by the MUTCD" just means "a sign that gives notice to road users of traffic laws or regulations." It doesn't mean that a sign that doesn't meet every one of the MUTCD design guidelines isn't a regulatory sign under that section of the code.

    Where the cop was merging from is meaningless. It's where you were with respect to the sign.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Long Beach, CA
    Posts
    236

    Default Re: Ticket for Re-Entering a Freeway from an Exit Lane, VC 21461(A)

    Quote Quoting flyingron
    View Post
    You keep harping on MUTCD, but there's no requirement to strict adherance to MUTCD. You can certainly make a claim that the sign that doesn't comply may have been difficult to see/interpret, but the fact that they didn't follow the standards isn't per se exculpatory.

    21461 doesn't say what you claim it says. Regulatory "as defined by the MUTCD" just means "a sign that gives notice to road users of traffic laws or regulations." It doesn't mean that a sign that doesn't meet every one of the MUTCD design guidelines isn't a regulatory sign under that section of the code.

    Where the cop was merging from is meaningless. It's where you were with respect to the sign.
    Hmmm. There are a lot of "shalls" in there. Did they intend to use "may?"

    https://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/pdfs/mill...4.01/2bndi.pdf

    Furthermore, please define CVC 21400. Seems pretty clear that there is a strict adherence to uniformity of signage. Heck there is even strict requirements on 'no parking' and 'tow away zone' signs on private property.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    19,000

    Default Re: Ticket for Re-Entering a Freeway from an Exit Lane, VC 21461(A)

    The MUTCD can say that failure to post a sign is punishable by death and it wouldn't matter. It has no legal authority. It is a design standard whose compliance is not strictly mandated by law.

    21400 VC says nothing of the sort. It says that specifications shall be developed, but it doesn't say you can't erect a sign that doesn't comply with those specifications and it ceratainly doesn't say that a driver can ignore regulatory signs just because they are not in compliance with the specification.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Long Beach, CA
    Posts
    236

    Default Re: Ticket for Re-Entering a Freeway from an Exit Lane, VC 21461(A)

    Quote Quoting flyingron
    View Post
    The MUTCD can say that failure to post a sign is punishable by death and it wouldn't matter. It has no legal authority. It is a design standard whose compliance is not strictly mandated by law.

    21400 VC says nothing of the sort. It says that specifications shall be developed, but it doesn't say you can't erect a sign that doesn't comply with those specifications and it ceratainly doesn't say that a driver can ignore regulatory signs just because they are not in compliance with the specification.
    Read these questions regarding the MUTCD. Seems pretty clear.

    1. Q: What is the legal status of the MUTCD?
    A: The MUTCD is adopted by reference in accordance with Title 23, United States Code, Section 109(d) and Title 23, Code of Federal Regulations, Part 655.603, and is approved as the national standard for designing, applying, and planning traffic control devices.


    https://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/knowledge...eral.htm#genq2

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    19,000

    Default Re: Ticket for Re-Entering a Freeway from an Exit Lane, VC 21461(A)

    It still doesn't say what you insist it says. All it says it is a "national standard". We have national standards for electrical wiring, for computer languages, Quality Control, fall control, etc... None of what you posted in the VC or the USC/CFR mandates compliance with the stanard nor does it provide for the failure of the government to comply that a violator is excused.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    2,872

    Default Re: Ticket for Re-Entering a Freeway from an Exit Lane, VC 21461(A)

    Quote Quoting Brian57
    View Post
    Read these questions regarding the MUTCD. Seems pretty clear.

    1. Q: What is the legal status of the MUTCD?
    A: The MUTCD is adopted by reference in accordance with Title 23, United States Code, Section 109(d) and Title 23, Code of Federal Regulations, Part 655.603, and is approved as the national standard for designing, applying, and planning traffic control devices.


    https://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/knowledge...eral.htm#genq2
    Approved not required.

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