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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
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    Default Should This Forum Focus on Beating Tickets Instead of the Law

    Thanks, that was very informative. And you're right about some people here wanting to convince people that they are guilty. That's a head scratcher in itself.

  2. #2
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    Jul 2010
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    Default Re: Is a Public Record Exempt from Discovery in California

    Quote Quoting zeljo
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    Thanks, that was very informative. And you're right about some people here wanting to convince people that they are guilty. That's a head scratcher in itself.
    It's not really a head scratcher. This forum, in general, does not exist to provide people outs or assistance with defenses when they commit crimes. If someone comes here and says "This is what I did. I think I didn't do something wrong", the volunteers here will provide evidence they did if they did or they didn't if they didn't. The majority of the volunteers here are in the "If you do the crime, you do the time" camp. If law enforcement makes a mistake, they will often point it out though. There are some people who assist those who have committed crimes/infractions/whatnot with ways to game the system or work legal loopholes to their favor. That's all well and good but they shouldn't throw a fit when the other side puts in their 2 cents worth.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Is a Public Record Exempt from Discovery in California

    Quote Quoting EJay
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    This forum has a bias towards people being guilty when they are not.
    Not really. They are very often guilty. That there are loopholes/games that can get them off does not change the fact they committed a crime. While a court may find them innocent, they still broke the law.

    Quote Quoting EJay
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    When a defendant has been accused of a crime and they are posting for help to fight their ticket, convincing them to submit to the punishment and plead guilty does them absolutely no good. They are here looking for a defense. Not a reason for their guilt.
    If they say "Was this a legit ticket?", we are going to tell them if it is and to take their lumps. If they say is there a way to get off/beat it, the volunteers aren't required to help. They can if they want. But they are also free to say "take your lumps" if the person did break the law. Again, the purpose of this forum generally is not to help people get away with crimes.

    Quote Quoting EJay
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    There are multiple elements which must be proven beyond reasonable doubt to be fact in order to convict someone of a crime.
    For crimes, generally yes. For traffic infractions and their ilk, beyond a reasonable doubt is not always the standard.

    Quote Quoting EJay
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    Posters on this forum often overlook many of these elements.
    No, they don't. Oftentimes, the elements are met. I support everyone's right to fight a traffic ticket to their death if they choose. But if they did it, then I'm gonna tell them they should take their lumps. I don't have to help them if I don't want to. No one does.

  4. #4
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    Mar 2018
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    Default Re: Is a Public Record Exempt from Discovery in California

    Quote Quoting free9man
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    Not really. They are very often guilty. That there are loopholes/games that can get them off does not change the fact they committed a crime. While a court may find them innocent, they still broke the law.
    It's hilarious that you apparently find it totally legitimate to charge people exorbitant fines for traffic infractions (such as $500 for failing to come to a complete stop before turning right on red, even when there is 0 safety concern), but people taking advantage of the letter of the law is "loopholes and games" and they "still broke the law", even if a court finds them innocent (!!!). That's all that I'm going to say, because I'm not here to argue with you.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Is a Public Record Exempt from Discovery in California

    Actually, no court finds anyone innocent. "Not guilty" and "innocent" are different concepts.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Is a Public Record Exempt from Discovery in California

    Quote Quoting zeljo
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    It's hilarious that you apparently find it totally legitimate to charge people exorbitant fines for traffic infractions (such as $500 for failing to come to a complete stop before turning right on red, even when there is 0 safety concern), but people taking advantage of the letter of the law is "loopholes and games" and they "still broke the law", even if a court finds them innocent (!!!). That's all that I'm going to say, because I'm not here to argue with you.
    I'm not here to argue either. I don't necessarily agree with the fines that are levied for some offenses. I think some of the Scandanavian countries have a far better fine system with their proportional fines but doubt it will ever make it over here. But that is something to be taken up with one's congresscritter.

    A finding of not guilty does not necessarily mean someone didn't do it. It just means the prosecution couldn't prove their case. That can mean the defendant was actually factually innocent but does not always.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Is a Public Record Exempt from Discovery in California

    "congresscritter"...new word to add to my vocab..... I love it!

  8. #8
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    Sep 2010
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    Default Re: Is a Public Record Exempt from Discovery in California

    This is not the "How do I break the law and get away with it forum." It's to provide the options for people who are facing existant legal problems. Despite what some other websites or publications will tell you, there's no magic defense procedure to dogde properly issued tickets. We can give the normal legal outs (cause for the stop, speed trap/engineering survey issues in California, various procedural stuff in Washington state, etc...). In many cases, there's really not much on a defense so we have to deal with mitigation (traffic school if that's an option in the situation, deferral if available, fine waivers, etc...).

    In a lot of courts, you're pretty much univerally fighting a losing battle unless you have something clearly exculpatory. Just arguing some imagined loophole to dodge a infraction you did commit doesn't often exist.

  9. #9
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    Massachusetts
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    Default Re: Is a Public Record Exempt from Discovery in California

    While I personally am of the, "If you can't do the time don't commit the crime" school, this board can be a means for someone who (is too much of a coward to) is less inclined to take responsibility for their actions to find the holes in their story so they can patch them up before they get into court.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Is a Public Record Exempt from Discovery in California

    Very often the people who whinge and whine about how we're supposedly too hard on people who get tickets are upset because we do crazy things, like suggesting that people not perjure themselves in court. Or answer the actual question asked instead of confabulating fanciful scenarios that the person could present to a court as an ostensible defense, even though we have no basis to support those fantasized excuses. Or correct them when they post nonsense.

    Posts that ignore the question asked and say something to the effect of, "Just pay the ticket", aren't helpful. But factual, legally accurate posts are helpful, even if we don't also encourage perjury or help people concoct fake defenses.

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