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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
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    5

    Default Employer is Fighting Unemployment Based on Willful Misconduct

    My question involves labor and employment law for the state of: Pennsylvania. I was working for an educational staffing service under an Intermediate Unit. I am NOT union. One of the staff members shared with everyone her personal life, on a daily basis. I made a comment that I didn’t believe some of her claims.

    Sent a video of a show that referred to what I thought, after work hours, to a coworker and the lady found out. She had me removed and eventually fired from my job. I filed for unemployment but it’s being fought now for willful misconduct? I’ve never been reprimanded. Worked for this company for many years but only received one evaluation that was outstanding. This lady never had an issue with me prior to this.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    24,521

    Default Re: Willful Misconduct

    Willful misconduct is whatever your employer says it is, when it comes to discipline and termination.

    The UI office may or may not agree. They are not bound to accept the employer's findings. However, it is important to point out that neither is your employer bound to accept the UI's finding when it comes to classifying your termination. In other words, if the UI office eventually finds that it is not willful misconduct by their definition, your employer is free to continue to classify it as such by theirs - they do NOT need to change their records to reflect the UI office's definition.

    If you're asking for a guess on what the UI office is going to decide, I don't think we have enough information about what happened to say.

  3. #3
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    Jan 2015
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    1,142

    Default Re: Willful Misconduct

    Okay, whatever they give as the reason for your termination, it will be considered along with your statement about why you were terminated, and an initial decision to grant or deny benefits will be determined. It is the responsibility of the employer to show that they had a valid misconduct reason to terminate you. Key in this situation you are describing is exactly what happened immediately before your termination, and what, exactly did they tell you was the reason for the termination? Because they have to pick out a reason, show that either it was so awful and self evident that you shouldn't have done whatever it was, even without warnings, or it was a process of progressive discipline in which you were warned, were given notice that your actions were not appreciated and were going to lead to your termination. In other words, you were put out of work, but it was your fault, you knew better than to do whatever it was that you were terminated for.

    Once the initial decision is made to approve or deny benefits, then you have the right, or the employer has the right to appeal this decision and ask for a hearing, with both parties or their representative present, and the agency gives a second appeal on the approval or denial of benefits. If you are not approved, file an appeal at once, simply saying, "I do not agree with this decision and wish to appeal it," and they will respond with a hearing date for the case to be reheard.

    But from what you said, it sounds like perhaps, the situation in which you sent the taped show to a co worker, and this person (supervisor?) found out about it was NOT the precipitating incident that caused you to be fired. You said "had me removed and eventually fired". Okay, was the video presented as the reason you were fired? I can see why it probably made the woman hate you and want to get rid of you if she had the power to do so, and there's nothing illegal about that. IF they can show a valid misconduct reason for your termination, there's no unemployment approval. But if was just that you did something, during your private time, discussing work and making fun of her with a co worker, not directly related to your job or your job performance, that sounds doubtful for misconduct that would keep you from drawing benefits. If you, say, posted it on a public site, that might be enough. particularly if the company had any sort of policy about use of social media. Or if you simply made the woman very angry with you, and she fired you for absenteeism, or some other unrelated misconduct reason which you'd given to them that's another issue.

    Or if there was no other reason, and the firing was because, six months ago, you posted something, or did something or sent something to someone, that really strengthens your possibility of being approved. If they didn't fire you for whatever it was immediately after it happened, that's pretty important. As has been said, we just can't know enough to make an educated guess here. So wait until you get your decision and then move forward with the appeals process. Continue to make the regular weekly or bi-weekly certifications for benefits while you are waiting to hear, you will only be back paid if the claim is approved for any weeks that you have filed for while waiting.

    And no matter what is decided in the unemployment system, it has no bearing on what the employer wants to present as the reason for your termination otherwise. Unemployment is a closed system, there's nowhere that anyone outside it could go in and look at your unemployment case or see what the employer said or you said.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    5

    Default Re: Willful Misconduct

    There was no prior issue. Was simply this lady, who is a coworker, not a supervisor, sharing daily , her personal life and I said one day I didn’t believe her issues were as serious as she always claims, sent a link privately to a coworker and she found out. She doesn’t work for the company I do but her company employs mine.
    Quote Quoting comment/ator
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    Okay, whatever they give as the reason for your termination, it will be considered along with your statement about why you were terminated, and an initial decision to grant or deny benefits will be determined. It is the responsibility of the employer to show that they had a valid misconduct reason to terminate you. Key in this situation you are describing is exactly what happened immediately before your termination, and what, exactly did they tell you was the reason for the termination? Because they have to pick out a reason, show that either it was so awful and self evident that you shouldn't have done whatever it was, even without warnings, or it was a process of progressive discipline in which you were warned, were given notice that your actions were not appreciated and were going to lead to your termination. In other words, you were put out of work, but it was your fault, you knew better than to do whatever it was that you were terminated for.

    Once the initial decision is made to approve or deny benefits, then you have the right, or the employer has the right to appeal this decision and ask for a hearing, with both parties or their representative present, and the agency gives a second appeal on the approval or denial of benefits. If you are not approved, file an appeal at once, simply saying, "I do not agree with this decision and wish to appeal it," and they will respond with a hearing date for the case to be reheard.

    But from what you said, it sounds like perhaps, the situation in which you sent the taped show to a co worker, and this person (supervisor?) found out about it was NOT the precipitating incident that caused you to be fired. You said "had me removed and eventually fired". Okay, was the video presented as the reason you were fired? I can see why it probably made the woman hate you and want to get rid of you if she had the power to do so, and there's nothing illegal about that. IF they can show a valid misconduct reason for your termination, there's no unemployment approval. But if was just that you did something, during your private time, discussing work and making fun of her with a co worker, not directly related to your job or your job performance, that sounds doubtful for misconduct that would keep you from drawing benefits. If you, say, posted it on a public site, that might be enough. particularly if the company had any sort of policy about use of social media. Or if you simply made the woman very angry with you, and she fired you for absenteeism, or some other unrelated misconduct reason which you'd given to them that's another issue.

    Or if there was no other reason, and the firing was because, six months ago, you posted something, or did something or sent something to someone, that really strengthens your possibility of being approved. If they didn't fire you for whatever it was immediately after it happened, that's pretty important. As has been said, we just can't know enough to make an educated guess here. So wait until you get your decision and then move forward with the appeals process. Continue to make the regular weekly or bi-weekly certifications for benefits while you are waiting to hear, you will only be back paid if the claim is approved for any weeks that you have filed for while waiting.

    And no matter what is decided in the unemployment system, it has no bearing on what the employer wants to present as the reason for your termination otherwise. Unemployment is a closed system, there's nowhere that anyone outside it could go in and look at your unemployment case or see what the employer said or you said.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    24,521

    Default Re: Willful Misconduct

    So what was this link and how does it prove your assessment of your co-worker's private life?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    5

    Default Re: Willful Misconduct

    It was a link to show about a Mom who faked her daughters illnesses. Mainly to just show that yes it does happen.


    Quote Quoting cbg
    View Post
    So what was this link and how does it prove your assessment of your co-worker's private life?

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