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  1. #1
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    Mar 2018
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    Maine
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    Default Child Returned from Visit with Father Drenched in Urine

    My question involves a child custody case from the State of: Maine

    My four year old child lives with me but his father has visitation rights. The visitation is not at set times but when mutually agreed on. He usually only has a day visit one day a month which is based on his own decision. We live in two different states but are only a 2 hour drive from each other.

    My child went to a day visit with his father last month and when he returned 6 hours later peed so much that I questioned if he ever used the bathroom with his father. He told me he had not. My child is shy about asking where the bathroom is and doesn't always remember to use the bathroom without prompting as he's only four.

    Today he went on another day visit with his father. When I dropped him off with his father I told his father that he had not peed recently and was unable to go when I took him to the bathroom so he needed to make sure that my son peed when he got to where they were going. When he returned to me he had peed his pants in the car on the way back to the meeting point. His pants, shirt, and coat were soaked in urine. His father handed me a change of clothing and asked me to change him. I was furious but I tried not to show this emotion in front of my child. I asked my son on the way home if he had used the bathroom while with his father. He informed me that his father had never showed him where the bathroom was and he couldn't hold it in any longer.

    I feel this is borderline neglect as my son is only 4 and should have been prompted to use the bathroom while with his father and at the very least told to use the bathroom before making the hour drive back to our meeting point. My parents disagree with me and say that my ex is just an inexperienced father. I'm not sure how to handle this situation. Any and all advice is greatly appreciated.

  2. #2
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    Sep 2017
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    Default Re: Child Returned from Visit with Father Drenched in Urine

    If he has visitation rights, how are they not detailed in the agreement? Does the agreement say that he just takes him when he feels like it?

  3. #3
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    Mar 2018
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    Maine
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    Default Re: Child Returned from Visit with Father Drenched in Urine

    It's a long story but he basically threatened to abandon my child if he had to pay child support and since he wouldn't discuss terms of visitation the judge put a basic statement that visitation would occur when both parents agreed on terms of the visit. It stated that if he didn't have any contact with his child for 60 days that he would have a supervised shortened visit before having a day visit. He is allowed overnight visits if he works his way up to them but he hasn't chosen to do any more than day visits once a month.

    He demands visitation so he can take his pictures and post them on fb and pretend he's an amazing father.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Child Returned from Visit with Father Drenched in Urine

    If your agreement states that you must both agree to visitation, then don't agree to it. Let him pay child support and let the courts make a normal schedule. Him threatening to "abandon" a kid that he sees once and leaves sitting in his own pee doesn't seem like a real threat.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Child Returned from Visit with Father Drenched in Urine

    PMMH is another person involved in a custody case, not an expert in custody litigation, so caveat emptor.
    Quote Quoting Maine123456
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    My child is shy about asking where the bathroom is and doesn't always remember to use the bathroom without prompting as he's only four.
    Have you discussed your child's reluctance to ask about bathrooms with your ex-? Is this within the realm of "normal four-year-old behavior", or is there an anxiety issue here that you should be discussing with your pediatrician or a child psychologist? (That last question's not a custody question; it's a "parent who had similar issues" question, and you don't need to answer it in the forum.)
    Quote Quoting Maine123456
    When he returned to me he had peed his pants in the car on the way back to the meeting point. His pants, shirt, and coat were soaked in urine.
    Did you discuss with your ex- whether he had tried to get your son to go to the bathroom and, perhaps, had an experience similar to yours (the child wouldn't go)?
    Quote Quoting Maine123456
    He informed me that his father had never showed him where the bathroom was and he couldn't hold it in any longer.
    I'm again wondering if your son has a normal level of anxiety over these issues. If this was a trip to a home, a typical four-year-old would be able to figure out where the bathroom is. If, on the other hand, this was a visit that occurred in a public place then it would be something your ex- should be more attuned to, as in many places public restrooms can be tricky to locate.

    It is important that you discuss these issues with your ex-, beforehand and not angrily after-the-fact, because if he's not used to parenting he may not really "get" that there are certain things that need to be explained to a four-year-old, or that many four-year-olds will even tell you that they don't need to go but, fifteen minutes later as you're no longer near a restroom, announce an urgent need to pee.
    Quote Quoting Maine123456
    My parents disagree with me and say that my ex is just an inexperienced father.
    Which brings us back to why communication is important.
    Quote Quoting Maine123456
    View Post
    It's a long story but he basically threatened to abandon my child if he had to pay child support and since he wouldn't discuss terms of visitation the judge put a basic statement that visitation would occur when both parents agreed on terms of the visit.
    Contrary to the prior suggestion, if you were to cut off visitation and say "I don't agree to any visits", you would likely find yourself on the defensive in court and you would also likely create a context in which your ex- could request and get a structured visitation schedule. If you prefer a structured schedule, I suggest negotiating for one and, whether in the form of an agreement with your ex- under the current order or something you seek to formalize, following it. If you end up back in court over this issue, and a refusal to allow visitation, you could find the court much more in line with your parents' thoughts -- and risk creating the impression that you are not interested in allowing your child to have a meaningful relationship with his father or, worse, that you are trying to prevent such a relationship.

  6. #6
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    Mar 2018
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    Maine
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    Default Re: Child Returned from Visit with Father Drenched in Urine

    Y'all are quick to judge. I have never ever talked negatively about my son's father in front of my son. I have always supported my child having a relationship with his father even when his father has abandoned him not once but three times and came back with no questions asked.

    Next - y'all must not be parents. It is completely normal for a 4 year old boy to still be having issues remembering to use the bathroom when he needs to. That is why I have instructed his father on many occasions to make sure he reminds our child to use the bathroom.

    I never said I was going to stop his visits with his father. And I didn't include all the other times his father has shown he's inexperienced at being a father. I simply asked what to do. Do I document it? Do I ignore it ? Do I suggest his father take a parenting class? Etc. but instead you were all quick to say something was wrong with my child AND then say it must be because of me. Y'all crazy.

  7. #7
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    Jun 2010
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    Default Re: Child Returned from Visit with Father Drenched in Urine

    Quote Quoting Maine123456
    View Post
    Y'all are quick to judge. I have never ever talked negatively about my son's father in front of my son. I have always supported my child having a relationship with his father even when his father has abandoned him not once but three times and came back with no questions asked.

    Next - y'all must not be parents. It is completely normal for a 4 year old boy to still be having issues remembering to use the bathroom when he needs to. That is why I have instructed his father on many occasions to make sure he reminds our child to use the bathroom.

    I never said I was going to stop his visits with his father. And I didn't include all the other times his father has shown he's inexperienced at being a father. I simply asked what to do. Do I document it? Do I ignore it ? Do I suggest his father take a parenting class? Etc. but instead you were all quick to say something was wrong with my child AND then say it must be because of me. Y'all crazy.
    Actually, most here *are* parents. And yes, there could be issues other than Dad's inexperience that are worth exploring. Since kiddo may be somewhat unsure of his relationship with Dad, he may well be hesitant to ask about the bathroom. Or even to respond that he needs to go when asked by Dad. What *I* would likely try? I'd talk to kiddo before spending time with Dad, and remind him that Dad is safe to tell about needing to use the bathroom. Then, if the child didn't go prior to the drop-off, I'd take kiddo to the bathroom myself before the hand-off.

    And while *you* may not talk negatively about Dad in front of kiddo, it is more than likely he knew that you were angry about the whole situation w/o your saying a word. And where was he when you brought this up with your parents? Unless he wasn't physically in the houme, he may well have overheard you. Or felt your tension. Really.

    It's not easy, everyone here knows. But you could make things easier by changing they way you do some things...

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Child Returned from Visit with Father Drenched in Urine

    Quote Quoting Maine123456
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    Y'all are quick to judge. I have never ever talked negatively about my son's father in front of my son. I have always supported my child having a relationship with his father even when his father has abandoned him not once but three times and came back with no questions asked.
    You were given what amounts to bad advice from another parent in a custody case, and I thought it was important to explain the risks involved if you were to actually follow that advice That discussion was not made necessary by your post, but it was nonetheless necessary.
    Quote Quoting Maine123456
    Next - y'all must not be parents. It is completely normal for a 4 year old boy to still be having issues remembering to use the bathroom when he needs to.
    You're not doing a very careful job reading other posts. You seem to be fishing for reasons to take offense and to disregard the suggestions made to you.
    Quote Quoting Maine123456
    And I didn't include all the other times his father has shown he's inexperienced at being a father.
    So there's a lot of additional evidence that your parents are correct, and that the issue is that you need to help your ex- understand how to be a better parent rather than blowing up at him and considering legal options when he makes a mistake.

    You asked how to "handle" the situation. It was suggested that you do so through improved communication, and by considering whether your child's anxiety was within the normal range. I'm not sure why that offends you.

  9. #9
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    Nov 2015
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    Default Re: Child Returned from Visit with Father Drenched in Urine

    I'm not an empathetic/sympathetic person, by and large, but it is really hard to be a part-time parent. If the father sees his son once a month that relationship stays tenuous and strained. It's difficult for your son to really trust him and it's no ones fault.

    4 year old children are unreliable. Having had two 4 year old children I feel comfortable saying that they won't always tell you what they need. It's about their own fear of disappointing you and their own inexperience in recognizing their own needs. They will tell you what they believe you want to hear in order to make you happy. If you were openly angry with dad in front of your son you communicate that to the boy. If he overhears you saying negative stuff about dad he will take it to heart. Kids that age are like little emotional sponges. Bear this in mind when you vent your spleen.

    If you choose to withhold visitation you will find yourself in a defensive position, as noted earlier. Going forward, if dad wanted more visitation he will likely get it and if you've a history of denying then it could go very badly for you.

    As distasteful as you may find it you will have to help teach dad how to recognize the signs of needing to use the bathroom. Perhaps you and dad should bite back your nasty remarks to one another and you should go son an outing or two and provide something more hands on that a didactic session.

    Here's the really judgmental part: It's YOUR responsibility to protect and promote the relationship between child and father. To display your rancor and ill will makes YOU the bad guy. I say this as one who was raised by parents in the aftermath of a bitter divorce and custody dispute that carried on until I was 20 (I have a few younger siblings, the youngest 4 years younger) and who adopted the children of another complicated but more amicable divorce. You are your sons ally and protector and, as the adult, it's your job to shove your feelings down and hide them because toddlers just don't get it. This was something that my parents didn't get and my mother's rage about my father and his new family infected my sister to a degree that she was in her 30's before she really formed a positive relationship with our father.

    Don't be that parent.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Child Returned from Visit with Father Drenched in Urine

    Quote Quoting Maine123456
    View Post
    It's a long story but he basically threatened to abandon my child if he had to pay child support and since he wouldn't discuss terms of visitation the judge put a basic statement that visitation would occur when both parents agreed on terms of the visit. It stated that if he didn't have any contact with his child for 60 days that he would have a supervised shortened visit before having a day visit. He is allowed overnight visits if he works his way up to them but he hasn't chosen to do any more than day visits once a month.

    He demands visitation so he can take his pictures and post them on fb and pretend he's an amazing father.
    I think I would go back and get visitation modified to have something a little more specific. That's such a vague visitation order. It seems odd that a judge would approve such a vague order.

    Do you talk to your son about why he's nervous to pee and wets himself? My daughter is 3 1/2 and I'm trying to potty train her so I know it's a challenge. She's still in diapers but has had medical issues.

    I'm not sure if you'll get neglect on your ex if the kid is just potty trained and wets himself.

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