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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    3

    Default Ticketed for Speeding in a School Zone, but Did Not See Flashing Lights

    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: Washington

    I read through the Washington State thread, great help. Also read through another thread discussing school zone speeding tickets specific to Sammamish, WA (apparently the flashing school zone lights are not in fact timed together as each has an internal clock set by the technician at the time of installation). Would love some help/suggestions specific to a speeding ticket I got yesterday.

    Was driving uphill towards intersection in Sammamish, WA. Did not observe any school signs, speed limit signs, flashing lights, or children. As soon as crested hill, there was a police officer waving me to the side some 150-200 ft in front of me. Was bewildered, thought he was waving ppl around an accident.

    He directed me to park in a church parking lot adjacent to the street. He told me his radar had me going 37 in a school zone (limit 20 mph) and that the school lights were flashing. I told him I didn't see any flashing lights. Gave him my license/registration, etc. We were both polite to each other. I assumed he was going to give me a warning because I have a very safe driving record and didn't see any flashing lights or school zone signs.

    While waiting for him, I could see children now pouring out of Skyline HS grounds and beginning to cross the street. I saw the flashing lights on the opposite side of the road I was driving, near the intersection, and just across the street from where the office would have been standing when he checked my speed. It was about 3 pm while I sat there waiting.

    He came back and did in fact give me a ticket. I was disappointed and didn't say much. He said he did me a favor and cited me for going 6-10 miles over (a lower fine) rather than the actual speed I was going (17 over). The fine is still $235.

    The ticket estimates the time of my speeding at 2:58 pm. School got out, according to the school website, at 2:55.

    There is an error on the ticket. For some reason the officer wrote that I have red hair, when I very obviously have medium brown hair (only mentioning this if a data error such as this by the officer might somehow invalidate the other data on the ticket).

    I'm in my thirties and have a very good driving record. Based on the threads I've read through so far, it seems I should contest the ticket and file for Discovery.

    Does anyone have any advice??

    Arguments I am considering:

    - Data error on ticket

    - Flashing lights were not on or visible to me when I crested this hill

    - File date on stamp (if greater than 5 days)


    OR would it be a bad idea for me to contest the ticket when the officer already let me off a little? Could they disagree with me and then charge a fine for the speed I was actually going? $355?

    I would sincerely appreciate any and all advice, thank you.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    18,340

    Default Re: Speeding

    - Data error on ticket
    Nope.

    - Flashing lights were not on or visible to me when I crested this hill
    You can't say for sure that they weren't on or that you just didn't see them. "I didn't see" means not paying attention.

    No defense there.

    OR would it be a bad idea for me to contest the ticket when the officer already let me off a little? Could they disagree with me and then charge a fine for the speed I was actually going? $355?
    Unlikely but anything's possible.

    Up to you to decide if you want to contest it. I don't see a defense but, then, I'm not a WA traffic lawyer.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Behind a Desk
    Posts
    98,846

    Default Re: Ticketed for Speeding in a School Zone, but Did Not See Flashing Lights

    You were driving in what direction on what road at the time you were observed by the officer to be speeding? Have you gone back to see if, in fact, you passed notices of a school zone? Do the signs dictate times when the school zone speed limit is in effect? Do they say that the speed limit is in effect only when warning lights are flashing? Where are the flashing lights located?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    19,901

    Default Re: Ticketed for Speeding in a School Zone, but Did Not See Flashing Lights

    Are we talking about 8th St? Even notwithstanding the school zone, the limit is only 30.

    Anyhow flashing lights or other explicit school zone or speed signs are not required by the statute. All it takes is the school crossing sign for RCW 46.61.440(1) to be in effect.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    3

    Default Re: Ticketed for Speeding in a School Zone, but Did Not See Flashing Lights

    I was driving west on SE 8th St, towards 228th Ave NE. The only flashing lights appeared to be at the SE corner of that intersection, right next to 228th and near the crosswalk. I wasn't near this school crossing or any other when the officer observed me.

    I will try to return to the site this week to verify there were no other signs.

    What I'm trying to explain isn't that "I didn't see" the flashing lights, but rather there were none along my route. I will go back to check, but driving up that hill I don't believe there were any signs marking a school zone or any type of decreased speed limit.

    The timing of the flashing lights may be relevant. As discussed in another thread (https://www.expertlaw.com/forums/sho...=117930&page=2), 2 different people had a similar issue in Sammamish, researched that the lights were not timed properly, and had there tickets dismissed.

    Here is an image depicting the situation:



    The scale doesn't show, but I was over 400 feet away when he observed me.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    4,301

    Default Re: Ticketed for Speeding in a School Zone, but Did Not See Flashing Lights

    I just looked a a street view of the path the OP followed and I can't find a School Zone sign. The street view is from 2011 though.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    19,901

    Default Re: Ticketed for Speeding in a School Zone, but Did Not See Flashing Lights

    Neither a school zone sign nor flashing lights are required. Washington State law says any marked school or playground crosswalk creates a 20MPH zone. There were school crossing signs on 8th approaching the school. That's all that is required.

    And besides, we was well exceeding the limit on the road (30 MPH) notwithstanding the school crossing 20MPH zone.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    3

    Default Re: Ticketed for Speeding in a School Zone, but Did Not See Flashing Lights

    Where are school crossing signs on 8th? There aren't any street crosswalks on 8th, east of there. When you look at the aerial images you can see that.

    There's a huge difference between going 7 miles over the speed limit and 17, especially if you were going 7 over in an area that wasn't a school zone.

    Technically, you could get a ticket for going over the speed limit at all, right? Even 1 or 2 miles over? Most people drive going 5-10 miles over, that's just average. Although technically an officer could give you a ticket for that, it's ridiculous when the point of traffic laws are to protect communities and keep everyone safe.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    19,901

    Default Re: Ticketed for Speeding in a School Zone, but Did Not See Flashing Lights

    The crossing is right at 8th & 228th. It's properly signed. The school zone extends 300' to either side. You're not going to get anywhere arguing that you missed seeing the zone because you were already exceeding the posted prima facie speed leading up to it. You won't get anywhere arguing the magnitude of the violation nor whether it's pointless to enforce laws.

    This law was to keep you from doing EXACTLY what you admit to doing, blasting at an unsafe speed into an area where students are present. I suspect what we have here is a bit of targetted enforcement right at the time it is MOST important that people drive safely: at the dismissal time for the adjoining school.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    886

    Default Re: Ticketed for Speeding in a School Zone, but Did Not See Flashing Lights

    I think you are getting ahead of yourself by speculating on defenses without even seeing the officer’s sworn written statement. To do that, you request a contested hearing and serve/file a discovery request using the template linked in the Washington State sticky thread mentioned in your first post. I would not worry about the ticket getting amended to a higher fine if you contest—that will not happen. In any case you can always cancel a hearing just by paying the fine at or before the scheduled hearing time.

    Also a ticket error or late filing is unlikely assuming it’s an electronically filed ticket.

    Speed tickets in Washington State are often won by preliminary motions to suppress device evidence. If you win a motion on that type of argument then it won’t be necessary at all to contest the legitimacy of the school zone.

    To look for possible device related defenses or other defenses, you will need to examine the officer’s statement and the device calibration certificate. If you want help reviewing discovery, upload digital photos or scans (with your personal id and citation number redacted) to any free image hosting site and link them here in your thread.

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