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  1. #1

    Default What to Do if There Are Problems With Missed Visitation and Late Pickup

    My question involves a child custody case from the State of: Michigan

    So, I have a long winded question and possibly opinion. And of course advice. My court order states that we are to have every Tuesday and Thursday 2pm-8pm, and every other Saturday to Sunday noon to 5pm. The father of my child and I worked out a verbal agreement since his work schedule changed and changed a bunch of things. I know that verbal agreements do not usually stand in court. We agreed on every Thursday when he got out of work around 5:30 until about 8, since the child has school during the week and then every other full weekend from 1pm Friday until 1pm Sunday.

    It’s been working weekend wise since the start, except for the occasional bringing the child home early. As for Thursdays, not so much. He has come to get the child on some Thursdays, and others he wouldn’t be able to get the child at all. He started working out of state and so it would be hard for him to get the child in time. He would argue with me on not letting him have the child for a full four day weekend or when I wouldn’t give in to letting him have a day of my weekend when he would miss the Thursday. He would tell me either last minute - a couple hours before when he would or wouldn’t be planning on getting the child, sometimes not at all.

    Lately he’s been missing more and more of them to the point our child is crying and throwing fits and completely upset that dad will tell me last minute he won’t be coming after all, while they are all ready to go. This past Thursday he wasn’t able to come, and again this Thursday. I texted him and told him since this kept happening I wanted to stop all Thursdays. I was doing it for the benefit of our child and their feelings. That if he were to get a stable job in town and able to get back to Thursdays, we could bring them back. He refused and said he would still get the child the following Thursday. I didn’t say anymore as I felt I had said my say.

    I now got a text from his wife this afternoon about how the following Thursday he still planned to get the child and she is planning on picking the child up, and he may not be there to parent. If I remember correctly in Michigan after a certain time of not being here on time, I do not have to send the child, and since he will not be picking the child up plenty long until after his ordered time, I don’t know if that matters? There has been a few times he has done this. What should I do? I really don’t want to go back to the original order since I want to let him have some time with his child. Any advice would be appreciated!

  2. #2
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    Default Re: What Should I Do

    Quote Quoting Justanormalmama
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    My question involves a child custody case from the State of: Michigan

    So, I have a long winded question and possibly opinion. And of course advice. My court order states that we are to have every Tuesday and Thursday 2pm-8pm, and every other Saturday to Sunday noon to 5pm. The father of my child and I worked out a verbal agreement since his work schedule changed and changed a bunch of things. I know that verbal agreements do not usually stand in court. We agreed on every Thursday when he got out of work around 5:30 until about 8, since the child has school during the week and then every other full weekend from 1pm Friday until 1pm Sunday. It’s been working weekend wise since the start, except for the occasional bringing the child home early. As for Thursdays, not so much. He has come to get the child on some Thursdays, and others he wouldn’t be able to get the child at all. He started working out of state and so it would be hard for him to get the child in time. He would argue with me on not letting him have the child for a full four day weekend or when I wouldn’t give in to letting him have a day of my weekend when he would miss the Thursday. He would tell me either last minute - a couple hours before when he would or wouldn’t be planning on getting the child, sometimes not at all. Lately he’s been missing more and more of them to the point our child is crying and throwing fits and completely upset that dad will tell me last minute he won’t be able to coming after all and being ready to go. This past Thursday he wasn’t able to come, and again this Thursday. I texted him and told him since this kept happening I wanted to stop all Thursdays. I was doing it for the benefit of our child and their feelings. That if he were to get a stable job in town and able to get back to Thursdays, we could bring them back. He refused and said he would still get the child the following Thursday. I didn’t say anymore as I felt I had said my say. I now got a text from his wife this afternoon about how the following Thursday he still planned to get the child and she is planning on picking the child up, and he may not be there to parent. If I remember correctly in Michigan after a certain time of not being here on time, I do not have to send the child, and since he will not be picked up plenty long after his ordered time, I don’t know if that matters? There has been a few times he has done this. What should I do? I really don’t want to go back to the original order since I want to let him have some time with his child. Any advice would be appreciated!
    Who is "we"?

    Are only YOU and the father allowed to transport the child? Do you ever have someone else pick up the child when you cannot do so?

    What is the order on 3 and 4 day weekends/holidays?

    What gives you the authority to stop his visitations? You do not get to dictate what he must do to get visitations.

    Let's see, the child is in school and unlikely to be available at 2:00, and since he cannot pick the child up at 2:00, you want to deny visitation.

    I suggest Dad go back to court and get a revised schedule due to his change in work hours and make clear third party transportation. It is obvious that you have unrealistic expectations of your role and intend to be difficult.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Custody

    Quote Quoting Justanormalmama
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    I know that verbal agreements do not usually stand in court.
    Established custody and visitation practices, even if inconsistent with the most recent court order, get a lot of weight in court. It's not just an agreement -- it's what you've actually been doing.
    Quote Quoting Justanormalmama
    It’s been working weekend wise since the start, except for the occasional bringing the child home early. As for Thursdays, not so much. He has come to get the child on some Thursdays, and others he wouldn’t be able to get the child at all.
    It sounds like its time for a parent-to-parent discussion of how to make Thursdays work. For example, perhaps dad would agree that he has to verify Thursday visitation by an agreed time (e.g., Wednesday at 5PM) or it's waived. Perhaps a different day would work better.
    Quote Quoting Justanormalmama
    If I remember correctly in Michigan after a certain time of not being here on time, I do not have to send the child
    You remember incorrectly.
    Quote Quoting Justanormalmama
    and since he will not be picking the child up plenty long until after his ordered time, I don’t know if that matters?
    You have an agreement and established practice. If you want to go back to the order, odds are you're going to end up back in court.
    Quote Quoting Justanormalmama
    There has been a few times he has done this.
    I thought this was a frequent problem. Is it in fact something that has only been an issue "a few times"? Is this a problem on a weekly basis? A monthly basis? A couple of times each year?

  4. #4

    Default Re: What Should I Do

    Quote Quoting OKisNotOK
    View Post
    Who is "we"?

    Are only YOU and the father allowed to transport the child? Do you ever have someone else pick up the child when you cannot do so?

    What is the order on 3 and 4 day weekends/holidays?

    What gives you the authority to stop his visitations? You do not get to dictate what he must do to get visitations.

    Let's see, the child is in school and unlikely to be available at 2:00, and since he cannot pick the child up at 2:00, you want to deny visitation.

    I suggest Dad go back to court and get a revised schedule due to his change in work hours and make clear third party transportation. It is obvious that you have unrealistic expectations of your role and intend to be difficult.
    We, would be considered as the child’s father and I.

    I do not drive, so my sister picks the child up and such. I have no problem with his wife picking the child up. The order does not state on who.

    Their is no order on 3 or 4 day weekends. He is only to get the Saturday to Sunday, but I gave the Friday within our agreement.

    I never said I gave authority over any of his visitations. But per our agreement, I don’t find it fair how much he is letting the child down so it’s best we stop them.

    The child is actually not in school at 2:00. I’m not denying any visitation beyond what we agreed on since he’s not using it.

    I am not at all trying to be difficult.

    @Mr.Knowitall - Ahh, thank you! I did not know that. We didn’t sign agreeing to anything with each other though, so does that weigh still or how does it all work?

    That is exactly why I texted to talk to him to talk it all over. He works typically Monday-Thursday early am until 5:30, and some Fridays have been put in there too. And typically he works out of state about an hour and a half away or so. I did also ask him prior to let me know ahead of time when he would or not be taking the child and he refused. He said that he doesn’t always know.

    Do you know what it was exactly I am meaning? I’m trying to remember what I found to show exactly. How after a certain time he forfeits his visitation.

    I do agree and think it is where we will end up if we do go back to it, exactly why I am trying my hardest to work with him on this. I just don’t find it fair to keep letting him have the Thursdays when he isn’t using them and upsetting our child.

    I was meaning as in a few times he has had his wife pick him up without being around to parent, sorry for the confusion. We started this agreement back in August, so hopefully will give a small time frame of things.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: What Should I Do

    He doesn't forfeit any visitation unless your actual order specifies such.

  6. #6

    Default Re: What Should I Do

    Thank you! I thought it was after a certain amount of time. I just re-read some things and just said after 30 minutes it’s not looked at as good. Sorry about that.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: What Should I Do

    Quote Quoting Justanormalmama
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    Thank you! I thought it was after a certain amount of time. I just re-read some things and just said after 30 minutes it’s not looked at as good. Sorry about that.
    What are you reading exactly?

    Just curious.

  8. #8

    Default Re: What Should I Do

    Quote Quoting Dogmatique
    View Post
    What are you reading exactly?

    Just curious.
    http://courts.mi.gov/Administration/...b/pt_gdlns.pdf

  9. #9
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    Default Re: What Should I Do

    I suggest you re-read that whole thing.

    It doesn't say what you seem to think it says ...

  10. #10
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    Default Re: What to Do if There Are Problems With Missed Visitation and Late Pickup

    Quote Quoting Justanormalmama
    View Post
    My question involves a child custody case from the State of: Michigan

    So, I have a long winded question and possibly opinion. And of course advice. My court order states that we are to have every Tuesday and Thursday 2pm-8pm, and every other Saturday to Sunday noon to 5pm. The father of my child and I worked out a verbal agreement since his work schedule changed and changed a bunch of things. I know that verbal agreements do not usually stand in court. We agreed on every Thursday when he got out of work around 5:30 until about 8, since the child has school during the week and then every other full weekend from 1pm Friday until 1pm Sunday.

    It’s been working weekend wise since the start, except for the occasional bringing the child home early. As for Thursdays, not so much. He has come to get the child on some Thursdays, and others he wouldn’t be able to get the child at all. He started working out of state and so it would be hard for him to get the child in time. He would argue with me on not letting him have the child for a full four day weekend or when I wouldn’t give in to letting him have a day of my weekend when he would miss the Thursday. He would tell me either last minute - a couple hours before when he would or wouldn’t be planning on getting the child, sometimes not at all.

    Lately he’s been missing more and more of them to the point our child is crying and throwing fits and completely upset that dad will tell me last minute he won’t be coming after all, while they are all ready to go. This past Thursday he wasn’t able to come, and again this Thursday. I texted him and told him since this kept happening I wanted to stop all Thursdays. I was doing it for the benefit of our child and their feelings. That if he were to get a stable job in town and able to get back to Thursdays, we could bring them back. He refused and said he would still get the child the following Thursday. I didn’t say anymore as I felt I had said my say.

    I now got a text from his wife this afternoon about how the following Thursday he still planned to get the child and she is planning on picking the child up, and he may not be there to parent. If I remember correctly in Michigan after a certain time of not being here on time, I do not have to send the child, and since he will not be picking the child up plenty long until after his ordered time, I don’t know if that matters? There has been a few times he has done this. What should I do? I really don’t want to go back to the original order since I want to let him have some time with his child. Any advice would be appreciated!
    I agree in part and disagree in part with the response that you received from Mr Know it All.

    You cannot get in trouble for sticking to the court order. However, dad has a better than decent chance of getting the court order changed to match the current status quo. That does not mean that you cannot stick to the court order until that happens.

    Whether or not dad would lose a specific visit (that visit only) if he is more than 30 minutes late would be governed by either your court order or the specific FOC (Friend of the Court) guidelines for your county. I am guessing that your court order does not state anything of that nature or you would have said so. The FOC guidelines for MI do tend to vary by county.

    You are not required to give him any time (ie four day weekends) if the court order or the FOC guidelines do not require you to do so. However again, that is something that he may be able to get modified.

    I can certainly understand why you want to stop Thursdays so that the child doesn't experience disappointment when dad is a no show, and I can also understand why it wouldn't help for dad's wife to exercise dad's time (unless there are siblings in dad's home that the child would want to spend time with).

    Bottom line, if the court order isn't working it needs to be modified in such a manner so that it does work. Friday to Sunday however is a typical weekend and you can absolutely expect that the court will give that to dad on his every other weekend. The rest is more up in the air depending on details we don't know.

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