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  1. #1

    Default Constitution vs. Ideology

    “The American Constitution is nothing more or less than Americans’ prevailing ideology. And this ideology—as any ideology comes from ideas about what is proper and improper, acceptable and unacceptable, desirable and undesirable, practical and impractical, noble and ignoble.” “The constitution is the actual legal framework of our society—and the actual legal framework in America today grants to government extraordinarily vast powers for intruding into the lives of peaceful people.”

    The constitution only addressed our society's legal framework, however it did not address its foundation? You wouldn’t build a skyscraper on a shaky foundation. You wouldn’t even want to build your house on a shaky foundation. For a health society, without solid foundation, the framework "Constitution" can only be a game book for the powerful company/person.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: What is the Foundation of Us Constitution

    I don’t see the point you are trying to make. The U.S. Constitution does two things: (1) it establishes the federal government, setting out its organization into three branches and detailing the powers of each; and (2) securing for citizens certain rights against the government. It does not set out rules for regulating society and the restraints on government were mostly set out in the 18th century when the U.S. was primarily a fairly small (population wise) agricultural nation. It’s remarkable that the U.S. has thrived as long as it has with this same governmental system in place. While young as a nation, we now have one of the oldest continuing governments in the world.

    The power given to the “powerful company/person” as you put it is only as much as the citizens as a whole have been willing to give. If voters truly were upset by that they could elect members of Congress and their state legislatures to more strongly regulate the rich and powerful. But not enough people are outraged by that. Voter participation in presidential elections has not exceeded 60% in the last 50 years. In that time, turnout in off years has not exceeded 45%. Moreover, in recent years the voter population has been, viewed nationally, very split and polarized. Americans seemingly cannot today agree on much, though I think there may be some more common ground than the media portrays. Nevertheless there is not enough common ground to significantly alter the power dynamics that currently exist in this country. But that is not the fault of the Constitution; that’s the fault of the citizens who make up this country. If you want to change that dynamic, you need to motivate people to get interested in the issues and, critically, get them to vote.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: What is the Foundation of Us Constitution

    Post hx is - interesting.

  4. #4

    Default Re: What is the Foundation of Us Constitution

    Thanks for your comments. "It does not set out rules for regulating society". Why? Is it a black hole for our society? What is remedy for those issues including "federal laws"( issues of proper and improper, acceptable and unacceptable, desirable and undesirable, practical and impractical, noble and ignoble.)

    "The Supreme Court is not a court of error. It does not intervene simply to correct injustices and misapplications of the law." If this is true, where and how to find the legal resolution for those petitions reached Supreme Court (98% of them would be denied)?

  5. #5
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    Default Re: What is the Foundation of Us Constitution

    Quote Quoting fgworld
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    Thanks for your comments. "It does not set out rules for regulating society". Why?
    Because our founders believed, wisely in my view, that such rules were best left to Congress and the states to do. Enacting such rules in the Constitution would give them a permanence they do not deserve. Would we want to be governed today by the social order of the late 18th Century? Thomas Jefferson believed that government ought to be remade each generation to suit the needs and desires of the public at the time, a continual process of updating and refining our republic. You don’t do that by locking in detailed rules to govern society in the Constitution.

  6. #6

    Default Re: What is the Foundation of Us Constitution

    Constitution does not regulate the society. It provides legal framework but no foundation or principles? The foundation or principle of society should be "truth, honesty, ethics, righteousness, virtue, fairness, goodness, Ten Commandments..."? Without these, the constitution is just a piece of document? We are fighting for win the case not the truth and rightness. That is why we have so many lawsuits that the legal system “could not handle”. We have the highest number of lawyers per capita and we are one of top 5 most litigious countries by capita in the world. We would create even more lawsuits and problems when the proceeding did not address root cause of lawsuit or the fundamental issues of many of problems in our society. Without foundation, how we apply the “frame work” and ensure the equal protection to all persons and allowing or excusing criminal actions such as perjury, forging document, contempt court order in the court proceedings?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: What is the Foundation of Us Constitution

    Quote Quoting fgworld
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    The foundation or principle of society should be "truth, honesty, ethics, righteousness, virtue, fairness, goodness, Ten Commandments..."?
    I disagree. The Ten Commandments are rules used by two specific religions, Judaism and Christianity. Our society does not need to governed by religious rules and the Constitution prohibits the government from adopting any one religion or favoring one religion over another. Everywhere in the world that you see theocracies (governments based on or run by religion) you see some of the worst governments and societies, not the best. Truth, honesty, and fairness are certainly good things to strive for, but I have no idea what you have in mind for making those things the “foundation” of our society. If you mean those concepts should be adopted as legal principles that apply to every situation then we would have even more litigation if the law required every person to be honest in everything or required fairness in all circumstances. Do that and every time someone thinks another person lied they'll go to court and sue over it. Your girlfriend lied about why she was late — go sue her for it. Kid lied about why he didn't do his homework — sue him for it. Likewise, every time anyone thinks something is unfair, they’ll run to the courts to litigate it. Someone thinks it's unfair that her boyfriend dumped her — take him to court. Someone thinks that it is unfair that Joe got the promotion at work, sue the employer. It would be a mess and ultimately make us less free and our society more expensive if the law regulated every interaction among people. It should not regulate everything; people can and should deal with some things without resorting to the government and the courts to do it for them.

  8. #8

    Default Re: What is the Foundation of Us Constitution

    You did not mention truth and evidences to prove if one wants sue someone? If you would put heavy penalty on both sides of lawsuit if anyone carry out untruthful actions and intentionally, for example perjury, things would change. Do you agree that someone estimate "if we do not allow or excuse lies or perjury in the system, the lawsuit numbers would be cut in half?"

  9. #9
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    Default Re: What is the Foundation of Us Constitution

    Quote Quoting fgworld
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    Do you agree that someone estimate "if we do not allow or excuse lies or perjury in the system, the lawsuit numbers would be cut in half?"
    No, I do not agree. The law already penalizes perjury, so there is no need for another law that prohibits it. As a result, this isn’t something that will magically cut litigation in half. The problem with perjury is proving that someone actually lied as opposed to simply being mistaken or having a different view or recollection of what happened. Too often today when someone states something that turns out to be wrong the other party immediately jumps to the conclusion that the person lied. We need to start realizing that not every wrong statement is a lie. If we start to do that, we can resolve more problems amicably and well before they wind up in court.

  10. #10

    Default Re: What is the Foundation of Us Constitution

    You stated a "ideal situation". In the real world I experienced was that persons lie under oath (during deposition and declaration) not only get away with penalties, but also be awarded with the case and judgments. And the worst part is that I can not sue the liars for perjury crime even with indisputable evidences because it is FBI/DOJ's "job" which they are selective decide who they are going to go after, who would let it go? It is unbelievable. That is the reason my question about our constitution and legal system, we don't have a way to stop this happening - committed perjury and other crimes without penalty, specially for powerful and rich people.

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