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  1. #1

    Default Re: What is the Foundation of Us Constitution

    You did not mention truth and evidences to prove if one wants sue someone? If you would put heavy penalty on both sides of lawsuit if anyone carry out untruthful actions and intentionally, for example perjury, things would change. Do you agree that someone estimate "if we do not allow or excuse lies or perjury in the system, the lawsuit numbers would be cut in half?"

  2. #2
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    Default Re: What is the Foundation of Us Constitution

    Quote Quoting fgworld
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    Do you agree that someone estimate "if we do not allow or excuse lies or perjury in the system, the lawsuit numbers would be cut in half?"
    No, I do not agree. The law already penalizes perjury, so there is no need for another law that prohibits it. As a result, this isn’t something that will magically cut litigation in half. The problem with perjury is proving that someone actually lied as opposed to simply being mistaken or having a different view or recollection of what happened. Too often today when someone states something that turns out to be wrong the other party immediately jumps to the conclusion that the person lied. We need to start realizing that not every wrong statement is a lie. If we start to do that, we can resolve more problems amicably and well before they wind up in court.

  3. #3

    Default Re: What is the Foundation of Us Constitution

    You stated a "ideal situation". In the real world I experienced was that persons lie under oath (during deposition and declaration) not only get away with penalties, but also be awarded with the case and judgments. And the worst part is that I can not sue the liars for perjury crime even with indisputable evidences because it is FBI/DOJ's "job" which they are selective decide who they are going to go after, who would let it go? It is unbelievable. That is the reason my question about our constitution and legal system, we don't have a way to stop this happening - committed perjury and other crimes without penalty, specially for powerful and rich people.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: What is the Foundation of Us Constitution

    If you have "indisputable evidences" of someone committing perjury you use it to discredit them in court.

  5. #5

    Default Re: What is the Foundation of Us Constitution

    I don't have the chance yet, no hearing, no trial, no oral argument, just "denied", the case closed. Appealed to Supreme Court, still denied,,,

  6. #6
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    Default Re: What is the Foundation of Us Constitution

    Quote Quoting fgworld
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    You stated a "ideal situation". In the real world I experienced was that persons lie under oath (during deposition and declaration) not only get away with penalties, but also be awarded with the case and judgments. And the worst part is that I can not sue the liars for perjury crime even with indisputable evidences because it is FBI/DOJ's "job" which they are selective decide who they are going to go after, who would let it go? It is unbelievable. That is the reason my question about our constitution and legal system, we don't have a way to stop this happening - committed perjury and other crimes without penalty, specially for powerful and rich people.
    That problem is not a defect in the Constitution. It is a defect in human nature. People sometimes lie. But proving that they lied as opposed to simply being mistaken is hard to do. We don’t punish people for simply being wrong. We do punish people for actually lying in court. The prosecutor needs to be sure he can prove that the witness actually lied rather than was simply mistaken, in order to win a perjury conviction.

  7. #7

    Default Re: What is the Foundation of Us Constitution

    “We do punish people for actually lying in court.” Not true! How about Client's case?

    "The prosecutor needs to be sure he can prove that the witness actually lied rather than was simply mistaken, in order to win a perjury conviction." What happen if prosecutor and victim even did not get the chance to prove the case in the court? If the Prosecutor can not prove in the court, the witness would be free and "win" the case. However, in the real world he/she did committed perjury. Our legal system and Constitution is all about win or lose, not about truth or false, in this case is intentional false - a crime is hard to prove??? Because we can not "handle the truth" or don't want deal with truth since various interests and power are more important than "law". FBI would spend lot of resource to investigate the "intention/connection" of the "emails leak" with no indisputable evidences while not provide resource and ignore the complain of perjury with forensic evidences?

    Watched the movie "Heavens Fall" two weeks ago and felt that we are not living in the "heaven". Our system has lots of defects, however the worst part of it is few willing to recognize it not mention improve it?

  8. #8
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    Default Re: What is the Foundation of Us Constitution

    fgworld, I have to ask. Are you simply pulling together legal terms and phrases and posting them?

  9. #9

    Default Re: What is the Foundation of Us Constitution

    Anything wrong with that? Your comments and suggestions? Thanks.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: What is the Foundation of Us Constitution

    Quote Quoting fgworld
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    “We do punish people for actually lying in court.” Not true! How about Client's case?
    What client’s case? Surely you are not an attorney, or you’d not have the misunderstanding of the law that you do. So what client is this?

    Quote Quoting fgworld
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    "The prosecutor needs to be sure he can prove that the witness actually lied rather than was simply mistaken, in order to win a perjury conviction." What happen if prosecutor and victim even did not get the chance to prove the case in the court?
    You might want to explain the circumstances if you want to get any feedback on this. The prosecutor can bring perjury charges if he or she believes there is a good case to pursue. Most of the complaints the prosecutor gets about perjury are, however, not very good cases. There just isn’t strong enough evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt all the requirements for a perjury charge. The persons making the complaint, of course, are absolutely certain that witness lied. Sometimes they are wrong in their belief. Even if they are right, there is still the matter of proving the perjury to a jury of people who know nothing of the witness or the truth/falsity of the statements the witness made. It’s one thing to believe a person lied; it’s another to actually prove it.

    Quote Quoting fgworld
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    Our legal system and Constitution is all about win or lose, not about truth or false,
    Our legal system is designed to allow each side to present their evidence and contest the evidence the other side presents. In that way, it is hoped that the jury will then be able to sort out from the evidence presented what the truth of the matter was. But humans are imperfect and so are the systems we design. Some people get away with lying. There is no way to completely prevent that. You are evidently upset at some particular case in which you believe a witness lied. The usual way to deal with that is for the other side to challenge the witness and expose the lie. If the other side can't do that, then they evidently lack the evidence needed to prove a perjury charge, too. But without details of what happened in that case there is no way I can comment on it.

    If you think you have some brilliant new way to tackle the problem of lying witnesses, lay out your idea and you can get feedback on it. If you don’t have any ideas for dealing with it you might have to accept that right now the system we have, while imperfect, is the best we are going to do on this problem, at least for now.

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