Results 1 to 8 of 8

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    2

    Default Can an Officer Estimate Your Speed After Obtaining a SMD Reading

    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: Washington

    I've seen the argument a couple of times suggesting that there is a problem with the officer making the estimate subsequent to the SMD reading.

    Here are two examples:
    https://www.expertlaw.com/forums/sho...907#post610907
    https://www.expertlaw.com/forums/sho...160#post370160

    What is the problem with the estimate coming after the SMD? And what is the basis for any objection or motion surrounding such an error?

    The only other error I can find is that the Officer does not list any distance check on the LIDAR, listing only the head's up alignment test and the internal test.

    Thanks much for any help!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    19,901

    Default Re: Speed Estimate Subsequent to Smd Reading (Brendanjkeegan, Mr.knowitall, Etc)

    Let me tell you a possibly incorrect answer to the question and then ask you to give me an educated guess as to the right answer.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    886

    Default Re: Speed Estimate Subsequent to Smd Reading (Brendanjkeegan, Mr.knowitall, Etc)

    There is another previous thread with discussion relating to your question:
    LIDAR 73 in a 60 MPH - Any Way Out

    It might be a stronger motion to suppress or exclude speed evidence if the officer did not delineate the delta distance check or any distance check at all as you mentioned.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Behind a Desk
    Posts
    98,846

    Default Re: Can an Officer Estimate Your Speed After Obtaining a SMD Reading

    Quote Quoting slowdrag
    View Post
    What is the problem with the estimate coming after the SMD? And what is the basis for any objection or motion surrounding such an error?
    So we're to assume a situation in which the officer states in the sworn statement that the officer measured the vehicle speed with a SMD and, after making the measurement, made a visual estimate of speed that was consistent with the reading produced by the SMD?

    Is there a problem with the SMD? Because if not, the officer's estimate is merely corroborative -- it's not necessary to support a conviction for speeding. Beyond that, as long as the officer is observing a car in motion, it is difficult to imagine a court being concerned about whether a visual estimate is made before or after a SMD measurement.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    19,901

    Default Re: Can an Officer Estimate Your Speed After Obtaining a SMD Reading

    I agree if the SMD reading is accepted by the court, a visual estimate (whether before or after) is largely unnecessary. However, if the SMD is somehow suspect and not admitted, making a visual estimate after "knowing" what the speed is would seem to be suspect

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,383

    Default Re: Can an Officer Estimate Your Speed After Obtaining a SMD Reading

    First of all, to answer your question, I have seen some courts use an EXTREMELY liberal interpretation of the 4th amendment. Attorney's will argue the the SMD alone without any tracking history or visual estimation constitutes an "unreasonable search and seizure."

    IMO, I'm not buying it. Mainly because the Supreme Court has established a good argument to the contrary with US v. Katz. (Thanksgiving Morning, too lazy to cite). Basically that case establishes the test that "(1) the individual 'has exhibited an actual (subjective) expectation of privacy,' and (2) society is prepared to recognize that this expectation is (objectively) reasonable." As a prosecutor, I would argue that you have no expectation of privacy as to your speed because anyone in the car next to you can determine your speed by traveling with you.

    So let's put it this way: If a prosecutor is present and you attempt to make that argument, be prepared to be shut down as they will almost be entirely more well versed in the exclusionary rule than you are. If no prosecutor, then make your argument and I would give it a 50-50 shot.

    With all that being said, the bigger argument you might have is that no tracking history is established. Most manuals and established precedent would require a tracking history prior to admission of an SMD reading.

    But all this comes down to if the officer stated that he tracked your vehicle subsequent to the reading being obtained by the SMD. If it doesn't specifically say something to that effect, I would proceed without this argument.

    If you know the court and the judge, I might be able to shed some light on whether you should make the argument as well.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    2

    Default Re: Can an Officer Estimate Your Speed After Obtaining a SMD Reading

    Thank you all.

    I was curious about the estimate prior to the SMD result. I thought either it was a tracking issue or a search issue, so thank you for the clarification. Looks like it's not usually a winner, though.

    The infraction was dismissed because the Delta Distance Check was not performed by the officer. The prosecutor reluctantly agreed prior to the start of the hearing. Kent Municipal.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    886

    Default Re: Can an Officer Estimate Your Speed After Obtaining a SMD Reading

    Congratulations and thanks for the update.

    1. Sponsored Links
       

Similar Threads

  1. Speeding Tickets: Can You Be Convicted of Speeding Based on a Visual Estimate of Your Speed
    By Aslandis58 in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 10-21-2017, 03:07 PM
  2. Speeding Tickets: Speeding Ticket With a Visual Speed Estimate, VC 22350
    By JeepFreak in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-23-2014, 08:19 PM
  3. Speeding Tickets: If an Officer Has to Speed to Catch Up With Me, is His Radar Reading Valid
    By gtpjonny in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 07-25-2013, 01:19 PM
  4. Speeding Tickets: Speeding Ticket, No Exact Speed, Visual Estimate Only
    By Wrekt-1 in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 03-23-2010, 01:04 PM
  5. Speeding Tickets: Visual Estimate of Speed
    By deception in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-06-2009, 12:49 PM
 
 
Sponsored Links

Legal Help, Information and Resources