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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
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    USA
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    90

    Default Can You Use Lethal Force to Recover a Stolen Vehicle

    My question involves a criminal law in the State of: Tx, had my car stolen from the mall, did my own research by looking for it. My fathers security guard, told me after seeing my pictures of my car that it had been in the neighborhood. My plan was to have them lock the gates when the suspects try's and leaves by placing a officer on either entrance to block that from happening. I recently got my LTC, if I or the officer open fire killing the suspect will I be liable to be sued by his remaining relatives? Or the officer for that matter? Also the insurance wants a power of attorney, why is that?

    If the stand still involves the suspects death, I was still planning on having the hoa boot the remaining relatives out of the neighborhood and filling a lien on his property for the 10k fine. The vin number on the car will match my insurance policy, so I'm not worried.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    Default Re: Castle Act and Stolen Car

    Quote Quoting D-town
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    I recently got my LTC, if I or the officer open fire killing the suspect will I be liable to be sued by his remaining relatives?
    The deceased’s estate and his family certainly may file suit against you, and they may well win a very large judgment against you. You may also be subject to criminal prosecution for murder or some other homicide crime, too. The details of the encounter would matter a great deal. Killing someone simply to recover your car is not a lawful use of your weapon. If the guy were to attack you such that self defense would be appropriate, you could use that defense in the lawsuit and/or criminal trial and hope the jury buys it. If the jury doesn’t accept that it was self defense, you may well end up owing a huge judgment and/or serving a long stretch of time in a Texas state prison. Your plan is just asking for trouble. What would be far better to do is call the cops once you see the car and let them handle it. Being a vigilante and trying to mete out justice yourself rarely ends well. I’m a bit disturbed that you just got your permit and are already contemplating ways to use your weapon to kill someone.

    Quote Quoting D-town
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    If the stand still involves the suspects death, I was still planning on having the hoa boot the remaining relatives out of the neighborhood and filling a lien on his property for the 10k fine.
    And what would your legal basis for doing that be?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    1,179

    Default Re: Castle Act and Stolen Car

    can someone say "premeditated"? You can't kill someone for stealing your car from them mall. Maybe if it were in the act of stealing, but that has long passed!

    good luck (1) getting he gates locked quick enough - how long are you going to be able to lock everyone else in or inconvenience them? (2) get 2 police officers to block the entrance (3) what insurance? (4) you have no power over the HOA to boot the rest of the relatives at all (5) or to file a lien for some 10k fine -- all for a car that was stolen at the mall (not in behind your gates or in your HOA) The HOA is not a security department nor is this their responsibility.

    dude....get back on your meds, please! If you see the car, call the local police...

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
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    Default Re: Castle Act and Stolen Car

    Quote Quoting hr for me
    View Post
    can someone say "premeditated"? You can't kill someone for stealing your car from them mall. Maybe if it were in the act of stealing, but that has long passed!

    good luck (1) getting he gates locked quick enough - how long are you going to be able to lock everyone else in or inconvenience them? (2) get 2 police officers to block the entrance (3) what insurance? (4) you have no power over the HOA to boot the rest of the relatives at all (5) or to file a lien for some 10k fine -- all for a car that was stolen at the mall (not in behind your gates or in your HOA) The HOA is not a security department nor is this their responsibility.

    dude....get back on your meds, please! If you see the car, call the local police...
    I could put pressure on the hoa by suit.the gates require the guard to open them.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    8,006

    Default Re: Castle Act and Stolen Car

    Quote Quoting D-town
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    I could put pressure on the hoa by suit.the gates require the guard to open them.
    On what basis would you file such a suit?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
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    USA
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    Default Re: Castle Act and Stolen Car

    Quote Quoting free9man
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    On what basis would you file such a suit?
    Obstruction. Update the software couldn't trace the car. If they got new fabs at a dealership the vin would show up. Super annoyed the detective assigned to my case, doesn't seem to be following my leads I provide him with. Went back to the location, called the towing company and they haven't gotten one in.checked the cameras at the location, they didn't find anything and may have been altered.

    Humanphibian wrote:
    this is the part that always raised my brow :

    § 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is
    justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or
    tangible, movable property:
    (1) if he would be justified in using force against the
    other under Section 9.41; and
    (2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
    deadly force is immediately necessary:
    (A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
    arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the
    nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
    (B) to prevent the other who is fleeing
    immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated
    robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
    property; and
    (3) he reasonably believes that:
    (A) the land or property cannot be protected or
    recovered by any other means; or
    (B) the use of force other than deadly force to
    protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or
    another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    Somewhere near Canada
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    Default Re: Castle Act and Stolen Car

    Quote Quoting D-town
    View Post
    Obstruction. Update the software couldn't trace the car. If they got new fabs at a dealership the vin would show up. Super annoyed the detective assigned to my case, doesn't seem to be following my leads I provide him with. Went back to the location, called the towing company and they haven't gotten one in.checked the cameras at the location, they didn't find anything and may have been altered.

    Humanphibian
    wrote:
    this is the part that always raised my brow :

    § 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is
    justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or
    tangible, movable property:
    (1) if he would be justified in using force against the
    other under Section 9.41; and
    (2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
    deadly force is immediately necessary:
    (A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
    arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the
    nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
    (B) to prevent the other who is fleeing
    immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated
    robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
    property; and
    (3) he reasonably believes that:
    (A) the land or property cannot be protected or
    recovered by any other means; or
    (B) the use of force other than deadly force to
    protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or
    another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.
    Oh really?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    8,238

    Default Re: Castle Act and Stolen Car

    Quote Quoting D-town
    View Post
    Obstruction.
    Suing the family of the thief for obstruction? That wouldn’t fly. The family of the thief has no duty under the law to help you recover your car or turn in the thief. Without a duty owed to you there is no basis for a claim here.


    Quote Quoting D-town
    View Post
    this is the part that always raised my brow :

    § 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:
    (1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and
    (2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
    (A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
    (B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and
    (3) he reasonably believes that:
    (A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
    (B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.
    (Underlining added.) I underlined the key word “and” in that statute to highlight that in order to use deadly force under that that statute you have to meet each (1), (2) AND (3). Subsection (2) requires that the force be used either to prevent the “imminent commission” of one of the listed crimes or to prevent the person who is fleeing “immediately after” having committed one of the listed offenses. You are past both those points now. The thief has already committed the crime and is not now fleeing immediately after; rather it has been at at least a day or since the crime occurred. So this statute would not justify your use of deadly force now, even if you could meet the other two parts. This is not a statute that justifies hunting down the thief well after the crime has been committed and exacting your own sense of justice by killing the thief.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
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    USA
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    Default Re: Castle Act and Stolen Car

    Quote Quoting Taxing Matters
    View Post
    Suing the family of the thief for obstruction? That wouldn’t fly. The family of the thief has no duty under the law to help you recover your car or turn in the thief. Without a duty owed to you there is no basis for a claim here.




    (Underlining added.) I underlined the key word “and” in that statute to highlight that in order to use deadly force under that that statute you have to meet each (1), (2) AND (3). Subsection (2) requires that the force be used either to prevent the “imminent commission” of one of the listed crimes or to prevent the person who is fleeing “immediately after” having committed one of the listed offenses. You are past both those points now. The thief has already committed the crime and is not now fleeing immediately after; rather it has been at at least a day or since the crime occurred. So this statute would not justify your use of deadly force now, even if you could meet the other two parts. This is not a statute that justifies hunting down the thief well after the crime has been committed and exacting your own sense of justice by killing the thief.
    Not the victims family for obstruction, the hoa if they don't kick them out of the neighborhood. Also they signed into the gate because the tolltag wasn't authorized for it, the suspect name is on the sign in sheet. Should be as easy as a warrant being filed. Sorry if my post didn't make sense fully. The theifs family will need to file suit and can only get a judgement if found guilty.not all have to be concurrent.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    8,006

    Default Re: Castle Act and Stolen Car

    You cannot sue the HOA for anything either as they owe no duty to you. You cannot force the HOA to remove someone from the neighborhood.

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