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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
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    3

    Angry Can You Be Fired by Somebody Who is Not Your Supervisor

    My question involves labor and employment law for the state of: Indiana

    I was the Quality Manager at a small (<100 people) foundry who has been dealing with outbursts from another manager constantly.

    After trying to explain to him why a product was not the way he had stated it was to a customer (it did not match the print so I needed something in writing to release the castings but the email the customer sent did not accurately state the issue), he blew up, pushed his way past me and when I told him if he was going to act that way when I tried to help educate him on dimensional issues (I have 20 years of experience in the business and was trying to do my job and help him) that I would not help him anymore. I would still have done my job. There were two other employees who heard this and he slammed doors and threatened my job saying I was not doing it because the owner had put him in charge of RMA issues (even though I STILL helped him with those, he was just making final decisions on returns). I immediately emailed the owner with the details (he was away for a week) and asked for advice.

    The next day to my EXTREME shock and surprise, the same manager fired me for a litany of offensives that were not true (uncooperative with other managers, poor work performance, inability to talk to customers - all untrue with no documentation to back it up). I questioned the HR Mgr how he could fire me and even though our organizational chart states that I worked directly for the owner, the General Mgr (he was not listed that way on our org chart and had always been called production mgr) could sign the termination letter. He has consistently gotten angry with me for DOING my job. I was to the point where I no longer could work the man anyway but for them to lie that way, well, it hurts. This new 30 year old person who has less than 2 years foundry experience was picked over me I am sure. He has also had conflicts with many other supervisors and employees in this foundry because he refuses to listen to anyone.

    As an older woman (59) in a foundry environment, I have been fighting discrimination for many years. I have felt before like he was not listening to my advice because I was a older woman but I actually believe this was retaliation issue because he couldn't cow me like he does people that worked for him.

    It is going to be worth fighting this for compensation (definitely would NOT want that job back!)? I will definitely have to if I can't find a job to support myself since I am single and care of my disabled retired Marine son. Was trying to get opinions.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    24,521

    Default Re: Person Signing Letter Lied and Was Not My Supervisor

    What law do you believe was violated by your termination? Let's start with that.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    3

    Default Re: Person Signing Letter Lied and Was Not My Supervisor

    I can show evidence of discrimination for my sex but couple that with retaliation. But could someone who was your contemporary and not a supervisor/boss even terminate you like that? Wouldn't the letter have to be signed by the my actual boss, the owner of the company?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    24,521

    Default Re: Person Signing Letter Lied and Was Not My Supervisor

    I actually believe this was retaliation issue because he couldn't cow me like he does people that worked for him.

    You understand that this is not ILLEGAL retaliation, right?

    The letter can be signed by anyone the boss authorizes to sign it.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    1,142

    Default Re: Person Signing Letter Lied and Was Not My Supervisor

    Okay, first and foremost, from what I ready, I believe there might be some thin tiny chance that there was some age discrimination afoot in this whole situation. But before you even think about filing an age discrimination suit, file for unemployment benefits. They are the first step when you are terminated. Then you'll begin your new job search. But the unemployment process will deal with the reason you were terminated, such as whether you had any prior warnings, was this a performance issue, were you given feedback about your unacceptable performance. If you were truly given a whole litany of reasons without, as you said, any prior warnings or documentation your chances of approval for unemployment sound pretty good, and there's a record of what they claim is their reason for termination.

    Filing an unemployment claim will get the whole process started, as the unemployment system will take your claim, with what you say, and then speak with the employer and get them to explain why they say you were terminated. In order to keep you from drawing benefits, they must prove that they had a valid misconduct reason to terminate you, that you were given warnings and chances to change your behavior and keep the job, that you had knowledge that your job was in danger, and you still chose to behave in the manner or perform the job in an unacceptable manner.

    This claims process will take several weeks, or even months to work on but if you are approved, you'll be backpaid for each week since the claim was filed, so file right away and get going on the unemployment insurance part of the deal. As I said, this can sure call their hand, and get them to show you what they're going to use as their justifications for termination.

    The unemployment system is a closed agency system, they do not share their information with EEOC or any other entity. You would be responsible for filing a complaint with the EEOC for age discrimination in addition to filing for unemployment benefits, but one is going to take a lot less time, and that's the unemployment situation. I do not see any trace of any other type of wrongful termination that might be involved. Yes, if they want to the company can legally fire you for just about anything, and they can assign the company janitor to fire you, regardless of who you work for, there's no law stating that you can't be fired by this person or that person.

    After you have gotten started on your unemployment process, you may wish to speak with an employment attorney and get some sort of eyeball idea of whether or not they believe there to be a discrimination case there. Find someone who will look at it and do it without a retainer or they don't believe you have a strong case. You would need to file a claim with the EEOC (As I said, totally unrelated to unemployment insurance) These claims are tricky to prove and it will take a long long time to work through their system. Even if you eventually were to get a settlement from your company for termination for an illegal reason (age), that's not what you should be planning to support yourself on at the present time. You'd probably be long since starved to death if you did not also have unemployment insurance and/or another job while waiting for any EEOC aspect of the situation to be decided.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    3

    Default Re: Person Signing Letter Lied and Was Not My Supervisor

    Thank you. That was exactly the information I was looking for. I have no desire to fight them but plan on getting a job to support myself. Lucky for me, I look 10 years younger than my actual age and have a boatload of skills. I will get the unemployment thing going tomorrow though since I will probably have to fight for that. I had NO warning at all and no reprimands of any kind on my file. Plus I have witnesses on how I was treated the day before by the man that fired me and he really HAD no idea what I actually did there. No one else did either. But I did a lot. I assume if they call me asking questions about information on my job ... I don't really have to answer that.

    I actually didn't even think about the fact that the owner and the Sales Mgr were both aware that I am borderline on the Asperger scale. Never really wanted to talk to customers anyway but the owner put me in that job even though he knew I wasn't comfortable with that part of it. May have a basis there for discrimination for a disability. In six years I only ever had three complaints from customers and for a Quality Manager trying to protect the company's interest, that isn't bad. Every time it was a situation where I told them the truth instead of lying to them. I am a horrible liar which from what I saw there was a prerequisite to keeping customers happy.

    Thanks again.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    24,521

    Default Re: Person Signing Letter Lied and Was Not My Supervisor

    Knowing you have any given condition is not enough to trigger ADA protections. Did you, at any time, request an accommodation for that disability?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    1,142

    Default Re: Person Signing Letter Lied and Was Not My Supervisor

    The only thing that is important about the three times you were rude to customers is if that's the reason they elect to say they fired you for, and it hasn't happened for quite a while. Forget about trying to justify anything you have done to the unemployment system by claiming to have Aspergers, but be sure that you mention, if rudeness becomes an issue, that in your six year career with the company, you always did your job to the best of your ability. IF NOT ASKED ABOUT THIS ISSUE, DO NOT VOLUNTEER IT. If your employer brings it up and the unemployment adjudicator asks you about it, you might say something like how you have been reprimanded or had an issue with rudeness to a customer mentioned maybe three times in the six years, and the last time was..... and the longer ago it was, the better.

    As I said, when an employer terminates to keep the person from drawing unemployment, they can't just shake out a whole laundry list of, "she was late three times in the last six years, she was rude to a customer once, she complained about her job last February, she did this and this and this, she messed up a product a few times over the years, so we fired her NOW. That's the dumb thing they are likely to do, because it sounds like they were trying to get rid of you, and it will be much in your favor that they've made up a big list instead of concentrating on one clear cut reason for your termination.

    If you had been fired immediately after you had been rude to a customer, that might have been a valid reason for firing you for rudeness to a customer, IF there were warnings about the previous times it had happened, and you'd been told that your rudeness if it happened again would result in your being fired...and then you did it again and they fired you. But just to say, "Well, she was rude to customers, we'd had a lot of complaints through the years...." isn't going to get them a valid misconduct reason to terminate you.

    All you need to tell the system right now is that you ALWAYS did your job to the best of your abilities, and you had no idea you were about to be terminated, you did not have any prior warnings, and had no idea your job was in jeopardy. That is perfectly honest and saves you from being too honest, which is a sort of Asperger tendency. Don't say too much. Just emphasize that you ALWAYS did your job to the best of your ability. You can't say that too often in this process. Don't even go into the thing about you and your new supervisor not getting along and you being discriminated against or mistreated. Just stress that you always did your job to the best of your abilities and you had no warning you were not satisfying your employers and you were about to lose your job.

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