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  1. #1

    Post Is Involvement in a Car Accident Proof of Speed to Fast for Conditions

    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: WA

    As I was driving to work one morning, entering I-5 Express Lanes (speed limit 60MPH but I was going much slower because it's a curved on-ramp), I lost control of my vehicle. It was raining that day, but this is Seattle, so it's not unusual. My car spun around and hit the guardrail, crushing the front left corner of my car (totaled). My airbags went off. I didn't hit any other cars, and the guardrail was not noticeably damaged. I got out of the car, and the people in cars behind me stopped and got out to make sure I was OK. I then got back in and rolled the car to the side of the road, and called the police. The witnesses drove away. The police showed up, made sure I was OK, and then gave me a ticket for "Speed to Fast for Conditions", before having my car towed to an impound lot.

    I requested a contented hearing and then filed for discovery. The discovery contains only this narrative: "Unit 1 was traveling on an interchange ramp from Westbound State Route 522 to Southbound Interstate 5. Unit 1 lost control and struck a jersey barrier with its front side". No witnesses.

    My question is: Do they have a case? Is the fast that I crashed proof of "speed to fast for conditions"?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Is Involvement in a Single-Car Accident Proof of Speed to Fast for Conditions

    Why did you lose control of the vehicle? If it was because the road was slippery due to the rain, then it's difficult to argue that your speed was not too fast for the road conditions.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Is Involvement in a Single-Car Accident Proof of Speed to Fast for Conditions

    I think I hit an oily spot on the road. It was the first rain in months. My back tires started fishtailing and I over-corrected and then spun out. I was travelling the same speed as traffic, about 30 MPH (as best as I can determine, since I take the same route every day). What is interesting to me about the police officer's narrative is that it does not mention this at all.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Is Involvement in a Single-Car Accident Proof of Speed to Fast for Conditions

    Quote Quoting notreallyspeeding
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    I think I hit an oily spot on the road. It was the first rain in months. My back tires started fishtailing and I over-corrected and then spun out. I was travelling the same speed as traffic, ab
    Where's your "evidence" that there was an oily spot in the road? Don't have any? Right?

    Quote Quoting notreallyspeeding
    View Post
    It was the first rain in months. My back tires started fishtailing and I over-corrected and then spun out. I was travelling the same speed as traffic, about 30 MPH (as best as I can determine, since I take the same route every day). What is interesting to me about the police officer's narrative is that it does not mention this at all.
    Why "interesting"?

    What part of that should he have mentioned?

    Did he witness any of that?

    Your statement is biased and self serving and doesn't change the "prima facie" (google it) evidence that you lost control and hit the wall.

    If you were cited for RCW 46.61.400 I think paragraph 3 applies:

    RCW 46.61.400 - Basic rule and maximum limits.

    (1) No person shall drive a vehicle on a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under the conditions and having regard to the actual and potential hazards then existing. In every event speed shall be so controlled as may be necessary to avoid colliding with any person, vehicle or other conveyance on or entering the highway in compliance with legal requirements and the duty of all persons to use due care.

    (2) Except when a special hazard exists that requires lower speed for compliance with subsection (1) of this section, the limits specified in this section or established as hereinafter authorized shall be maximum lawful speeds, and no person shall drive a vehicle on a highway at a speed in excess of such maximum limits.

    (a) Twenty-five miles per hour on city and town streets;

    (b) Fifty miles per hour on county roads;

    (c) Sixty miles per hour on state highways.

    The maximum speed limits set forth in this section may be altered as authorized in RCW 46.61.405, 46.61.410, and 46.61.415.

    (3) The driver of every vehicle shall, consistent with the requirements of subsection (1) of this section, drive at an appropriate reduced speed when approaching and crossing an intersection or railway grade crossing, when approaching and going around a curve, when approaching a hill crest, when traveling upon any narrow or winding roadway, and when special hazard exists with respect to pedestrians or other traffic or by reason of weather or highway conditions.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Is Involvement in a Single-Car Accident Proof of Speed to Fast for Conditions

    Quote Quoting notreallyspeeding
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    I think I hit an oily spot on the road. It was the first rain in months. My back tires started fishtailing and I over-corrected and then spun out. I was travelling the same speed as traffic, about 30 MPH (as best as I can determine, since I take the same route every day). What is interesting to me about the police officer's narrative is that it does not mention this at all.
    Even if you hit an oily spot you still lost control of your vehicle. You could have also hit a patch of standing water and hydroplaned. It's not about what you think happened, it's about what you can prove happened. This is why the officers narrative is short and to the point. No speculation, just facts.

    You mention the other vehicles that were all going on the guessed upon speed of 30 doesn't mean anything. I would like to know how many people crashed their cars in the same spot you did while you waited for the police and tow truck. I'm gonna guess 0. Back to the oil...had it been there I'm sure more cars (especially motorcycles) would have gone down while you were there.

    I'm not saying you can't fight it but you are going to have a hard time proving you were not driving too fast for the conditions (rain) You are the one who fishtailed, overcorrected, and crashed.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Is Involvement in a Single-Car Accident Proof of Speed to Fast for Conditions

    I’m not sure what your actual chances of winning a dismissal would be, but it appears to me that the officer’s statement is not admissible:

    Quote Quoting officer’s affidavit
    "Unit 1 was traveling on an interchange ramp from Westbound State Route 522 to Southbound Interstate 5. Unit 1 lost control and struck a jersey barrier with its front side"
    I would be inclined to move to suppress or exclude the officer’s statement based on lack of personal knowledge. If he/she does not indicate what if anything you admitted to, it looks to be inadmissible.

    However it would be better if you could upload digital photos or scans of all discovery material (with your personal id and citation number redacted) to any free image hosting site and link them here in your thread for review.

    By the way, your suggestion that Seattle tends to be rainy isn’t quite right. We just got off a record 56 day dry streak, and then it only rained a little. Summers are really dry in Seattle.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Is Involvement in a Single-Car Accident Proof of Speed to Fast for Conditions

    Here is the redacted discovery: https://www.docdroid.net/2UJXPAn/redacteddiscovery.pdf

    I'm not trying to say I didn't lose control of my vehicle. I'm just wondering if there is a solid case against me, considering the police officer did not see the accident, and they don't have any witnesses. Note that the report shows that the incident occurred at 9:12am, the police were dispatched at 9:13am, and arrived at 9:18am.

    I would have thought that the officer would note the fact that it was raining, at the very least. Otherwise, what "conditions" are there? Also I thought he'd write down that he interviewed me and I told him that I lost control when my car fishtailed and I overcorrected.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    Default Re: Is Involvement in a Single-Car Accident Proof of Speed to Fast for Conditions

    Well, the affidavit does not say anything about speed. I would move to dismiss because of lack of evidence - the statement only says that you lost control but does not say that you lost control because of excessive speed. In a way, that is implied in the statement, but if it is not stated explicitly, then it is not evidence that you were going "too fast for conditions". Perhaps others can help how to phrase this motion, but given how the courts in WA are informal, I think you have good shot at getting it dismissed. If it was me, I'd say that there is no statement or explanation in the affidavit that or why the officer believes excessive speed was the cause of the accident. Without such statement, the evidence is insufficient.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Is Involvement in a Single-Car Accident Proof of Speed to Fast for Conditions

    Can I move to dismiss due to lack of evidence at the pre-trial hearing? I have a pre-trial hearing set up for 10/20 with King County District Court in Shoreline (Judge Douglas J. Smith).

    If the motion is denied, can I request a deferment at that time (or would I have already missed my chance for that)?

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Is Involvement in a Single-Car Accident Proof of Speed to Fast for Conditions

    Quote Quoting notreallyspeeding
    View Post
    Can I move to dismiss due to lack of evidence at the pre-trial hearing? I have a pre-trial hearing set up for 10/20 with King County District Court in Shoreline (Judge Douglas J. Smith).

    If the motion is denied, can I request a deferment at that time (or would I have already missed my chance for that)?
    Thanks for posting your full discovery. The affidavit still looks to be inadmissible for lack of personal knowledge per ER 602--which means you can move to have it suppressed immediately when your case is called. If suppressed, it will not be read into the record and will essentially not exist. The same goes for the accident report. If suppression is granted, only the ticket can be considered and that evidence is prima facie. You can then move for dismissal due to lack of evidence since the ticket alone probably won’t be seen by most judges to carry enough weight.

    At a pre-trial hearing you probably can’t move but the prosecutor might present you with options such as deferral or Inattentive Driving (which doesn’t go on your state record). It’s also possible the prosecutor could agree the case is weak and recommend dismissal. If you hold out for a hearing with a judge you can ask the judge if your deferral option can be held pending the outcome of preliminary motions. If he agrees then you get a free ride on the motions.

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