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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    2

    Smile Is There a Grace Period fpr Running a Red Light that Just Changed Color

    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: WA

    Today in the mail, I received an automated ATS ticket for failing to stop on a photo enforced right turn ( http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.63.170 pursuant to https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.055 http://www.codepublishing.com/WA/Bel...levue1149.html). The ticket is issued by ATS, and reviewed and signed electronically by a Bellevue, WA officer. The alleged infraction occurred 0.1 seconds after the light changed from yellow to red. A second photo captures the vehicle 1.3 seconds after red and shows it completing the right turn and records the vehicle speed at 13mph. I'm curious about the 0.1 second threshold, from looking at the video at normal speed it would appear that the turn was initiated while the light was still yellow. In WA it is legal to enter an intersection on yellow. My understanding is human reaction time is 0.3 second or so. Should the threshold for a ticket not be higher -- I don't think an officer without video replay would issue this ticket.

    Thoughts on my chances? Anybody have any experience contesting one of these? Any lawyers willing to take on a class action (Bellevue has issued over 120,000 tickets as of 2015 (30K in 2015 according to https://police.bellevuewa.gov/police...enforcement/)? These tickets are not worth a lawyer in the singular (they don't go on one's driving record and are a moneymaker for the city), and the courts hand out mitigations like candy. I see a lot of comments indicating these tickets are iron clad, and contesting them is futile, that said, if I were a traffic cam vendor, I'd be hiring people to post comments to that effect

    Here is the video evidence, in all its glory.


    http://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.63.170
    https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.055

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    RTR/WDE
    Posts
    1,698

    Default Re: Photo Enforced Failed to Stop on Red for Right Turn 0.1s

    Pay it, because the light was yellow even before you got to the intersection and made that turn on red (without stopping).
    Don't make me quote Monty Python at you.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    2

    Default Re: Photo Enforced Failed to Stop on Red for Right Turn 0.1s

    Quote Quoting BooRennie
    View Post
    Pay it, because the light was yellow even before you got to the intersection and made that turn on red (without stopping).
    Thanks BooRennie. Yes, the light was yellow, before it was red! Still wondering what is a reasonable grace period -- 0.1 seconds doesn't seem like it gives people enough benefit of the doubt (one shouldn't have to slam brakes on yellow). Chicago increased their threshold for tickets to 0.3 seconds, for example. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...o-to-lose-17m/

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    19,132

    Default Re: Photo Enforced Failed to Stop on Red for Right Turn 0.1s

    The yellow IS the grace period. There was five seconds of yellow before the red. You only would have had to "slam on the brakes" if you were:

    1. Driving too fast.
    2. Not paying attention.,
    3. Trying to beat the red (you lost).

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    3,624

    Default Re: Photo Enforced Failed to Stop on Red for Right Turn 0.1s

    If the front-end of your vehicle were over the white stop line when the traffic light turned red, you would have completed a legal turn.

    Your front-end was clearly behind the white stop line when the traffic light turned red. Your turn was illegal and there is no way to beat this infraction. Pay the ticket and save yourself a trip to the courtroom.

    You had a full 3 seconds to stop your vehicle. You could have safely done so without any issues.
    I'm not a lawyer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.......

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    614

    Default Re: Photo Enforced Failed to Stop on Red for Right Turn 0.1s

    Quote Quoting Who'sThatGuy
    View Post
    If the front-end of your vehicle were over the white stop line when the traffic light turned red, you would have completed a legal turn.

    Your front-end was clearly behind the white stop line when the traffic light turned red. Your turn was illegal and there is no way to beat this infraction. Pay the ticket and save yourself a trip to the courtroom.

    You had a full 3 seconds to stop your vehicle. You could have safely done so without any issues.
    There MAY be ways to beat this ticket- but not based on anything we see here so far. If you want to challenge the legality of their system, how you were served, their records, calibrations...contracts...etc, etc. All of which can get highly technical, and may not be fruitful.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    19,132

    Default Re: Photo Enforced Failed to Stop on Red for Right Turn 0.1s

    Quote Quoting Who'sThatGuy
    View Post
    You had a full 3 seconds to stop your vehicle. You could have safely done so without any issues.
    Five seconds actually. The video shows the light turning yellow at the 1 second mark and red at the 6 second mark.

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