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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    615

    Default Re: Ticket for Not Properly Displaying a FasTrak Transponder

    Quote Quoting flyingron
    View Post
    You can't concentrate on ONE word. The LAW is a sentence and you have to read the entire sentence. As I pointed out, it doesn't say "must be visible."
    So we are clear, here is the VC text:
    if a transponder or other electronic toll payment device is used to pay tolls or other charges due, the device shall be located in or on the vehicle in a location so as to be visible for the purpose of enforcement at all times when the vehicle is located on the vehicular crossing or toll highway.
    I am lost as to what you are now arguing about.

    You first said it "is supposed to be" stuck to the glass.

    I pointed out that is incorrect, as a matter of the law.

    You are now saying something about not using the three words in order.. "must be visible"??? I didnt 'quote' the law when I placed those three words together, I was stating the net operative result of the words in the law.

    The law states:
    the device shall be located in or on the vehicle [not NECESSARILY affixed to the car or the glass- IN or ON] in a location so as to be visible for the purpose of enforcement [so it can be seen, in one of the areas described in the VC]



    The only thing I can figure out is that you are saying that displaying the transponder in the windshield, BUT NOT HAVING IT AFFIXED, would prevent 'enforcement'. So your position is that 'enforcement' therefore requires that it actually be attached to the glass????

    So I am at a loss as to what your point is now....

  2. #12

    Default Re: Ticket for Not Properly Displaying a FasTrak Transponder

    Hi all,

    I hope you don't mind me resurrecting an old thread. I'm happy to start a new one instead, but since my question is related... here goes.

    I was recently cited for a violation of VC 21655.5(b), driving solo in the carpool lane. This was in the I-15 Express Lanes in San Diego, which are also FasTrak lanes. The car I was driving at the time is registered with FasTrak by its license plate (as all vehicles that use FasTrak have to be), but I did not have the transponder in the car. So, from what I can tell, same situation that the OP had.

    The CHP officer cited me for VC 21655.5(b), though, not 23302(b). I would think 23302(b) would be the correct VC. I didn't know I had to have the transponder in the car; I thought the plate registration was good enough, but the CHP officer told me there are no cameras in the I-15 Express Lanes. Ignorance is no excuse, I know, and I am willing to pay the $238 fine for VC 23302(b), since not having the transponder was my screw-up. I am NOT, however, willing to pay $491 for VC21655.5(b), and I want to fight it.

    VC 23302(b) states: "For vehicular crossings and toll highways that use electronic toll collection as the only method of paying tolls or other charges, it is prima facie evidence of a violation of this section for a driver to drive a vehicle onto the vehicular crossing or toll highway without a transponder or other electronic toll payment device associated with a valid Automatic Vehicle Identification account with a balance sufficient to pay those tolls."

    It refers specifically to "vehicular crossings and toll highways," as opposed to Express Lanes. VC 23254 states: "A 'vehicular crossing' is any toll bridge or toll highway crossing and the approaches thereto, constructed or acquired by the Department of Transportation under the provisions of the California Toll Bridge Authority Act."

    The Express Lanes are obviously not a "vehicular crossing" according to that definition. So, my question is: Can it be argued that Express Lanes that display the FasTrak logo and collect tolls can be considered a "toll highway?" (As opposed to a purely toll road, such as the South Bay Expressway (the toll portion of CA-125) or CA-73.)

    Thanks!

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    RTR/WDE
    Posts
    1,705

    Default Re: Ticket for Not Properly Displaying a FasTrak Transponder

    Quote Quoting bnewall1
    View Post
    Hi all,

    I hope you don't mind me resurrecting an old thread. I'm happy to start a new one instead, but since my question is related... here goes.

    I was recently cited for a violation of VC 21655.5(b), driving solo in the carpool lane. This was in the I-15 Express Lanes in San Diego, which are also FasTrak lanes. The car I was driving at the time is registered with FasTrak by its license plate (as all vehicles that use FasTrak have to be), but I did not have the transponder in the car. So, from what I can tell, same situation that the OP had.

    The CHP officer cited me for VC 21655.5(b), though, not 23302(b). I would think 23302(b) would be the correct VC. I didn't know I had to have the transponder in the car; I thought the plate registration was good enough, but the CHP officer told me there are no cameras in the I-15 Express Lanes. Ignorance is no excuse, I know, and I am willing to pay the $238 fine for VC 23302(b), since not having the transponder was my screw-up. I am NOT, however, willing to pay $491 for VC21655.5(b), and I want to fight it.

    VC 23302(b) states: "For vehicular crossings and toll highways that use electronic toll collection as the only method of paying tolls or other charges, it is prima facie evidence of a violation of this section for a driver to drive a vehicle onto the vehicular crossing or toll highway without a transponder or other electronic toll payment device associated with a valid Automatic Vehicle Identification account with a balance sufficient to pay those tolls."

    It refers specifically to "vehicular crossings and toll highways," as opposed to Express Lanes. VC 23254 states: "A 'vehicular crossing' is any toll bridge or toll highway crossing and the approaches thereto, constructed or acquired by the Department of Transportation under the provisions of the California Toll Bridge Authority Act."

    The Express Lanes are obviously not a "vehicular crossing" according to that definition. So, my question is: Can it be argued that Express Lanes that display the FasTrak logo and collect tolls can be considered a "toll highway?" (As opposed to a purely toll road, such as the South Bay Expressway (the toll portion of CA-125) or CA-73.)

    Thanks!
    Yes, we do mind you resurrecting an old thread, especially since it is not your old thread.
    Don't make me quote Monty Python at you.

  4. #14

    Default Re: Ticket for Not Properly Displaying a FasTrak Transponder

    Quote Quoting BooRennie
    View Post
    Yes, we do mind you resurrecting an old thread, especially since it is not your old thread.
    Figures... Either I get blasted for replying to an old thread, or I get blasted for starting a new thread when I should have "searched for existing threads on the topic." indeed.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    615

    Default Re: Ticket for Not Properly Displaying a FasTrak Transponder

    Quote Quoting bnewall1
    View Post
    Figures... Either I get blasted for replying to an old thread, or I get blasted for starting a new thread when I should have "searched for existing threads on the topic." indeed.
    I know, right?

    I'll give it a look later. Seems that it may be a challenge to find where the law defines a use as a 'toll road' versus 'a HOV lane'.

    There has to be a legal difference, otherwise officers could cite every tollpass driver as an HOV-violator.

    I'll dig later.

    Keep in mind that you do NOT want to say 'happy to pay for the violation I am guilty of'....better to say 'here is what I did; here is what was cited; the law doesnt apply to what I was cited for.

    Of course you have corrupt cops and judges to deal with, so there's that.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    3,292

    Default Re: Ticket for Not Properly Displaying a FasTrak Transponder

    Quote Quoting bnewall1
    View Post
    Figures... Either I get blasted for replying to an old thread, or I get blasted for starting a new thread when I should have "searched for existing threads on the topic." indeed.
    At least around here, you search the old threads to see if your question has already been answered and if not ask your question. I've also never seen anyone get blasted for asking a question even if it was answered the day before for another poster.

  7. #17

    Default Re: Ticket for Not Properly Displaying a FasTrak Transponder

    Quote Quoting adam_
    View Post
    I know, right?

    I'll give it a look later. Seems that it may be a challenge to find where the law defines a use as a 'toll road' versus 'a HOV lane'.
    I actually started a new thread here: https://www.expertlaw.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=243436

    I did find a definition of "toll road" or "toll highway," too, as mentioned in the thread above. VC 611.

    Quote Quoting adam_
    View Post
    There has to be a legal difference, otherwise officers could cite every tollpass driver as an HOV-violator.
    There's a VC that covers that. VC 23302(a)(2) states that a transponder "shall be located in or on the vehicle in a location so as to be visible for the purpose of enforcement at all times when the vehicle is located on the vehicular crossing or toll highway."

    Quote Quoting adam_
    View Post
    Keep in mind that you do NOT want to say 'happy to pay for the violation I am guilty of'....better to say 'here is what I did; here is what was cited; the law doesnt apply to what I was cited for.
    That's pretty much what I'm doing. I'm doing TBWD first. I've already written it, even though I don't even have a trial date. There's a section where I state that the officer would have properly cited me for violating VC 23302(b), but he instead, erroneously cited me for VC 21655.5(b).

    Quote Quoting adam_
    View Post
    Of course you have corrupt cops and judges to deal with, so there's that.
    Tell me about it... been through that before!

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