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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    38,867

    Default Re: CPS Kinapping, No Judge No Jury

    Did you obtain the permission of the cps employee to record your conversation? I doubt it and given the situation I suspect the conversation took place in a situation where the conversation is covered as protected communications. If it was not with permission and it is protected you're looking at a 3rd degree felony.

    As to holding a person in protective custody; you don't understand what that means apparently and you have no idea what the courts would allow regarding a child where the concussion is suspicious and believed to possibly be due to the actions of the parents.


    But hey, if you think you have something here you go on and head on in to court. Don't be surprised when you are the one on the wrong end of the punishment stick.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    4

    Default Re: CPS Kinapping, No Judge No Jury

    Quote Quoting jk
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    Did you obtain the permission of the cps employee to record your conversation? I doubt it and given the situation I suspect the conversation took place in a situation where the conversation is covered as protected communications. If it was not with permission and it is protected you're looking at a 3rd degree felony.

    As to holding a person in protective custody; you don't understand what that means apparently and you have no idea what the courts would allow regarding a child where the concussion is suspicious and believed to possibly be due to the actions of the parents.


    But hey, if you think you have something here you go on and head on in to court. Don't be surprised when you are the one on the wrong end of the punishment stick.
    pro·tec·tive cus·to·dy
    the detention of a person for their own protection

    My daughter was HELD their in detention, are you some kind of idiot that believes protective custody has to mean the CHILD is taking some place else out of parents site? No, my daughter was in "the detention" of CPS thus not allowing to take our daughter home. The very definition of.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    38,867

    Default Re: CPS Kinapping, No Judge No Jury

    Quote Quoting Jeffrey1985
    View Post
    pro·tec·tive cus·to·dy
    the detention of a person for their own protection

    My daughter was HELD their in detention, are you some kind of idiot that believes protective custody has to mean the CHILD is taking some place else out of parents site? No, my daughter was in "the detention" of CPS thus not allowing to take our daughter home. The very definition of.
    They can hold the child for 24 hours without seeking a court's order. For periods beyond that they require a court's order.

    I don't know if the PA courts operate at night. If not I doubt a court is going to get All worked up that it was 36 hours, or whatever with a couple nights in there, especially given the gravity of the condition of the child.

    What time and what day did you sign the papers relinquishing custody temporarily?

    your action, if you believed they were holding your child unlawfully would be to file a motion with the courts to command they release the child. Did you?

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    671

    Default Re: CPS Kinapping, No Judge No Jury

    Please, would you explain how a 9 mo fell hard enough to fracture her skull? Thank you.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    2,289

    Default Re: CPS Kinapping, No Judge No Jury

    Quote Quoting Jeffrey1985
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    Not like theirs laws on the books where they dont profit from kidnapping children right? Theirs no chance fabrication of the accusing party to have an incentive to do just that right? A certain bill from 1997 perhaps says something among these lines? Anyways the CPS confronted us with "stories" that the doctors supposedly told them that we've never even said regarding the fall. Preslie vs Marcia Vreeken case for example, CPS requesting immunity from being prosecuted from fabricating evidence and tried to claim it's a reasonable means of action to take a child away from parents because they "feel" like they are being abused and only they know what's best.

    My wife's mother has temporary custody until they finish their "so called investigation". They also had no court order and from What i've read about PA law, they can't hold someone in protective custody for more than 24 hours, if it exceeds 24 hours, they need a court order. My wife and I were their for 2 nights and was barred from taking our child home. My wife asked them about this, The cps is on Audio stating "No we didn't have a court order and i'm not quite sure how long it is in PA that we can hold someone for. She than ran off numbers, stating she thinks it could have been 72 hours, No wait 48 hours, maybe 24, she wasn't sure! We weren't allowed time to have a lawyer present when reviewing their safety plan before signing, it was either we sign or they will temporary put the child in foster car where in a 1998 statistic has shown that Children are 6 times more likely to be hurt in these foster homes than with parents. Under duress and Doing our part to protect our child from going into their system where kids are many more times to be molested and disappeared, we signed and now only get visitations...
    You weren't held in anyone's custody. You were free to leave. You chose to stay with your child which is fine. But no one held you in that hospital for two days. Did the doctors clear your child to leave during those two days?

    No one forced you to sign that safety plan either. You chose to do that.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Lake Chapala
    Posts
    3,043

    Default Re: CPS Kinapping, No Judge No Jury

    Quote Quoting jumanji
    View Post
    Please, would you explain how a 9 mo fell hard enough to fracture her skull? Thank you.
    Seven months old. Seriously how can a seven-month-old baby get enough traction and height to fall and break her skull?

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    2,289

    Default Re: CPS Kinapping, No Judge No Jury

    Quote Quoting Jeffrey1985
    View Post
    pro·tec·tive cus·to·dy
    the detention of a person for their own protection

    My daughter was HELD their in detention, are you some kind of idiot that believes protective custody has to mean the CHILD is taking some place else out of parents site? No, my daughter was in "the detention" of CPS thus not allowing to take our daughter home. The very definition of.
    How was she held in their detention? You obviously can't read - "for their own protection." The doctors and CPS felt that for a 7 month old's protection she needed to stay in the hospital. She wasn't in detention either. The doctor's didn't feel comfortable discharging her.

    Also - I'm too curious how does a 7 month old fracture her skull? Some kids walk early. Supposedly my ex stepson was 9 months when he started to walk. My daughter has medical issues and was a little behind on that so she didn't learn to walk until a year ago at 2. So at 7 months she would have not done anything during playing that caused her to fracture her skull. I never even dropped her ever so that would be the only thing I could think of to cause a fracture - other than someone beating the child.

    You can feel free to get a lawyer and take CPS to court. The hospital probably followed their guidelines and CPS theirs.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Somewhere near Canada
    Posts
    35,894

    Default Re: CPS Kinapping, No Judge No Jury

    Quote Quoting Jeffrey1985
    View Post
    Not like theirs laws on the books where they dont profit from kidnapping children right? Theirs no chance fabrication of the accusing party to have an incentive to do just that right? A certain bill from 1997 perhaps says something among these lines? Anyways the CPS confronted us with "stories" that the doctors supposedly told them that we've never even said regarding the fall. Preslie vs Marcia Vreeken case for example, CPS requesting immunity from being prosecuted from fabricating evidence and tried to claim it's a reasonable means of action to take a child away from parents because they "feel" like they are being abused and only they know what's best.

    My wife's mother has temporary custody until they finish their "so called investigation". They also had no court order and from What i've read about PA law, they can't hold someone in protective custody for more than 24 hours, if it exceeds 24 hours, they need a court order. My wife and I were their for 2 nights and was barred from taking our child home. My wife asked them about this, The cps is on Audio stating "No we didn't have a court order and i'm not quite sure how long it is in PA that we can hold someone for. She than ran off numbers, stating she thinks it could have been 72 hours, No wait 48 hours, maybe 24, she wasn't sure! We weren't allowed time to have a lawyer present when reviewing their safety plan before signing, it was either we sign or they will temporary put the child in foster car where in a 1998 statistic has shown that Children are 6 times more likely to be hurt in these foster homes than with parents. Under duress and Doing our part to protect our child from going into their system where kids are many more times to be molested and disappeared, we signed and now only get visitations...
    I think there are important details missing from your account but at this point I'm not convinced that the child was deliberately harmed. With that in mind, your only option is to contact an attorney, and go from there.

    I'll also note that in certain areas of the country CPS (or its equivalent) are still coming under fire for overstepping their legal boundaries and violating the rights of parents. I believe a lot of the problem is due to the basic lack of training given to CPS workers ... but also, parents don't know their rights and tend to believe that if CPS says "Give me the kid", they have to hand over the child or face whatever punishment CPS is threatening. Contrary to what some people think, refusing to let CPS in without a warrant IS IN NO WAY indicative of parental guilt. It's simply standing up for your rights.

    That's not to say that they're The Evil Empire - they're not. They actually do save lives and often do so with virtually no outside support. I'm sure lack of funding doesn't exactly help either (case workers are very often over-worked, underpaid and overwhelmed). But the fact remains, there are still too many instances where CPS is a wee bit trigger happy and appear to be okay with sidestepping the law.

    Sorry, I lost my thread.

    See an attorney. Yeah, that's it.

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