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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    Default Re: Enough Probable Cause for Search Warrant

    If you have an attorney, LISTEN to them. If you don't have an attorney, GET one.

    That case is from Illinois. You are in Wisconsin. What happens in another state has no bearing on what the caselaw for YOUR state says nor how an appellate court in your state might rule.

  2. #12

    Default Re: Enough Probable Cause for Search Warrant

    The attorney will be retained, however after a lot of over promising and under delivering, I come here for second opinions. so far it looks like more over promising is happening.

    I understand your points, since wisconsin has no on point or relevant caselaw, they would possibly go to same district for opinions? Appeals attorney suggests there is wisconsin case that encourages an invitation of people v burmeister in illinois.

    pretty much here to make sure appeals attorney isnt just telling him what he wants to hear.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    38,867

    Default Re: Enough Probable Cause for Search Warrant

    whatever found after the search, does not make a warrant without probable cause valid. Its easy to say well judge issued it so it must be valid... but there are thousands of search warrants deemed invalid later on. also many times an officer applies for warrant and judge tells them no, get me more inculpatory data.
    and? That isn't what I said.

  4. #14

    Default Re: Enough Probable Cause for Search Warrant

    [QUOTE=jk;1034824]
    Quote Quoting LegalWriter
    View Post
    I think the op is trying to suggest the evidence of drug issues was in a separate bag without any informetion to link it to the op. The different color bag is presumably a veiled argument it wasn't from his household. That doesn't work. I have at least 2 different types of trash bags each week in my trash pick up. So he is attempting the "Some guy must have driven by and tossed his drug related trash next to mine" isn't usually a winning argument, especially since it was only the basis for the search warrant. The fact the suspicion based on the evidence found in the trash was supported by the find once the warrant was issued makes it even more difficult to argue "it wasn't my trash".
    I understood this as, since they found stuff, it makes my argument it wasnt my trash tough. AS you probably know during appellate review, they rule if info at time of application for warrant was enough.

    If thats not what you meant, my apologies.

    I have found many cases where probable cause was upheld because either there was indices in same bag, or surveillance of defendant placing garbage. Murder case i found where man disposed of body in dumpster had gotten away with it until witness came forward stating they saw him throw the silver bags in dumpster.

    without indices or eye witness account it is not fair to assume it is from that house. While US v greenwood establishes garbage is fair game not needing a warrant, it also says “readily accessible to animals, children, scavengers, snoops, and other members of the public.

  5. #15
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    Jan 2006
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    Default Re: Enough Probable Cause for Search Warrant

    without indices or eye witness account it is not fair to assume it is from that house.
    if it was that simple all one had to do to defeat the concern is put their evidence of illegal activity in a separate bag with no evidence it belongs to that household and set it right beside their normal trash.

    And we see that working every day, right?

  6. #16

    Default Re: Enough Probable Cause for Search Warrant

    Quote Quoting jk
    View Post


    if it was that simple all one had to do to defeat the concern is put their evidence of illegal activity in a separate bag with no evidence it belongs to that household and set it right beside their normal trash.

    And we see that working every day, right?

    Of course not. but in my case other evidence is a 16 month old anonymous tip. and a garbage pull that is 16 months old and electrical usage?

    weak. we are talking about constitution here.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    Default Re: Enough Probable Cause for Search Warrant

    Quote Quoting Frozen Tundra
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    Of course not. but in my case other evidence is a 16 month old anonymous tip. and a garbage pull that is 16 months old and electrical usage?
    So those are months/years and not months/dates? That would have been useful information to have. That does make the argument a little bit more in your favor if that truly is everything they did in the investigation. The issue, as has been pointed out, is that there may have been more than just what is in the affidavit presented to secure the warrant. I'm guessing the cops didn't just sit on their hands for a year but I guess it's possible. Just because there is no written statement in evidence doesn't mean verbal statements weren't made. Has your attorney sought discovery of any transcripts that might exist from the warrant proceeding, assuming it wasn't an informal one?

    Quote Quoting Frozen Tundra
    View Post
    weak. we are talking about constitution here.
    Yes but the courts set the limits on what violates the Constitution and PC can be absurdly easy to reach.

  8. #18

    Default Re: Enough Probable Cause for Search Warrant

    Quote Quoting free9man
    View Post
    So those are months/years and not months/dates? That would have been useful information to have. That does make the argument a little bit more in your favor if that truly is everything they did in the investigation. The issue, as has been pointed out, is that there may have been more than just what is in the affidavit presented to secure the warrant. I'm guessing the cops didn't just sit on their hands for a year but I guess it's possible. Just because there is no written statement in evidence doesn't mean verbal statements weren't made. Has your attorney sought discovery of any transcripts that might exist from the warrant proceeding, assuming it wasn't an informal one?



    Yes but the courts set the limits on what violates the Constitution and PC can be absurdly easy to reach.

    Attorney sought further discovery because there must have been further investigation. Affidavit suggested other attempts to gather garbage without success. Also, you would think they would either watch house, pull me over, or some other type of investigation. And yes we asked for any verbal testimony during affidavit hearing.

    All requests for further discovery were denied, and we were told we had everything. We specifically asked for crimestoppers tip sheet, any record of any other investigation etc. We were attempting to preserve issues at appeal. Our biggest ammunition was if surveillance placed me putting bag into can. Rest of affidavit was boilerplate language. Just attesting to affiants training and expertise.

    There is a tip sheet generated by crimestoppers. Any other investigation must have been exculpatory. Whatever the case, we were told nothing is available. Which is BS, considering the tip sheet. we were not asking for identity of tipster.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    Default Re: Enough Probable Cause for Search Warrant

    What do you mean any other evidence must be exculpatory? Are you suggesting they are withholding exculpatory evidence from you or
    are you simply guessing at things here?

  10. #20

    Default Re: Enough Probable Cause for Search Warrant

    Quote Quoting jk
    View Post
    What do you mean any other evidence must be exculpatory? Are you suggesting they are withholding exculpatory evidence from you or
    are you simply guessing at things here?
    In the affidavit they referred to other attempts at trash pulls, but would not provide results of those pulls. Also one would think, there must have been more of an investigation. So whatever they may have had, if any, must have been deemed useless, or possibly exculpatory.

    Crimestoppers tip sheet for example, should definitely exist. we requested full transcript with names redacted if any. DENIED. Tip on Affidavit was as simple as "John Doe has 200 plant marijuana grow at 123 main st"

    So they kept tabs on me and a year later pull garbage with zero further investigation? possible but doubtful. There must have been more

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