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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    1

    Default Should You Go to Court for a Custody Order

    My question involves a child custody case from the State of: Hawaii


    I'm 33, to a father of a 2 1/2 yr old daughter. Ex is 30. Not married, our relationship maybe 5yrs.
    Its been little over a month, since our break up. She jump ship. She went Lesbian.

    Since our daughter got born, we lived separate. We live 7 min drive away. She live with her mom/stepdad/sister/sisterbf/sisterbaby. Same home. I live with my mom/brother/brothergf/their newborn baby.
    Me and my brothers. Own two houses and extra land next to it (on title). Had a family talk with my brother, decided to tell the tenants to move out. Their lease expired Nov 2016. (1 year contract). They found a place in Jan. Me and my ex moved in Feb 2017. She moved out ending of this May.

    I started going Therapy ending of April 2017, every week and now every two 2 weeks. I live by myself now, 3 bedroom 1 1/2 bath + studio to myself. I confronted her in May 2017 and her mom. Notice 2 months before, something was definitely wrong. It was a nightmare.

    Anyways, we are on a verbal mutual agreement with our daughter. First two weeks of the break up, was tough. Mind Games and im a bad dad bla bla. Lots of verbal. During her moving out. She moved back with her parents.

    Father (me)
    1. I have her on my Medical, 401k/personal bank beneficiary/life insurance
    2. Since she was born, me and ex created a bank account. I deposit $100-$150 each pay stub. Ex did it to for about a year as well. Until she found a new job. We met at work. She doesn't deposit anymore. Was supposed to be a "savings bank"
    I drop it to $80 since we moved in, to maintain the bills. I ask her how much is left, few weeks ago, she said $120. Anyway!
    Still doing the $80 every pay stub, to create a paper trail.
    3. Little over a year 1/2, i always pick my daughter up/drop off. To maintain our baby sitting time. Every since she work that new job. She works AM. I work PM Shifts. EX refuse to drop her off on her way to work, she said its "double job". I was never late on pick ups or drop offs. Pick my daughter up 630am-8am, varies on schedule.
    4. Right now our verbal Agreement, I have her 8am to 1:30pm Sunday Monday Thursday. Tues and Wed I have her AM/PM
    Monday i drop her to a daycare (casual) on Monday 1:30pm. I pay $20 cash (did ask for receipts). I take care 90% of the daycare money. Ex mom pick ups the daughter 3pm. Now i pay 100% to daycare, ex refuse. She say she pay her mom for baby sitting. I don't believe that.
    5. Since the break up, went to the court house to get legal advice. Mutual agreement/mediation/court.
    6. Thanks to friends that went threw it. Since the break up, i log everything down on a calendar. Do audio recordings on pick up/drops off. 95% Ex Mom give my daughter to me. Since ex is at work at AM shifts. Printed 400+ pictures of me with my daughter together, life time since she was born till now.
    7. I keep all receipts now, of things i getting for my daughter. Clothes/groceries etc..
    8. I saved pictures/text/emails conversations. Uploaded on a memory card. Had some confrontations. She refused mediation. Saved that text, fresh break up. She ignore my video calls to my daughter. During the 1-2 weeks of the break up.
    9. Took pictures of my House. Safe environment. Made my daughter room nice again. Since ex took most of my daughter belongings. (do have before and after pictures)
    10. House to myself now. I pay the bills. Utilities/Insurance/Property tax.
    11. I do lots of activities with my daughter.


    Ex -

    1. Everything her way, doesn't trust anyone, live with her mom now.
    2. Works a $9-$12 hr Job. Daughter is on a free medical from her. She has no 401k (she cash it out). No dental. No life insurance.
    3. She works 7am-530pm, 730am-6pm, 8am-630pm Shifts. Her sets days off is Fri-Sat. She works for a tourist tour company.
    4. Her Mom usually watches the daughter when i bring my baby back 1:30pm.
    5. Uses all that money obviously, of that account we created. To buy things for daughter. They money i deposit every pay stub.
    6. Refused Mediation. She did say verbally " take me to court, lets go" All big headed. But when i confronted her, stop the mind games and bull crap. We can be good co parents without court. As why she being nice. I warn her, your action will be brought up to a judge. Black/white. If we go that route.
    7. Refused to drop my baby to my house. 7 min away drive. On her way to work. Never! I always did pick her up. But she can pick up friends that needs a ride to go to work.
    8. She took 90% of my daughter belongings. Even took the damn potato peeler! Moving out (i scrambled to get things for daughter , make her room nice again)
    9. She pay $400 rent to the mom.


    Probably miss a lot on that part of me and my ex. Tried to keep it short. You get the idea!

    We are on a verbal agreement, maybe the past week. Ex being nice now. She send me schedules on future dates, if i can watch her a extra day or two. She accepts my video calls to my daughter etc. I confronted her. Told her in text, "you push my buttons, i will take the extra step to fight for my rights with my daughter"
    We keep very Light contact. I be specific on text and dates, when i pick her up or drop her off. I send several pictures to my ex of my daugther, on my civil side.

    I live in Hawaii. Here, mostly likely joint custody. Unless mom or dad has no job/druggy/homeless/abusive etc...

    Like i said, its only been about little over a month.
    I sold some personal belongings this month, i got about $4g in case i have to get a lawyer. Enough for a retainer. I called 5 of um, i picked one. But she wont be back August 7th. So i have a month to decide. I seriously don't know what to do.
    I had zero dollars to come up with a lawyer retainer. Sold my close personal belongings. To come up with the funds.

    I see my daughter every week. Once she start going school/holidays/birthdays/vacations. I dunno how my ex will handle it.
    50/50 my friends/coworkers say take her court, or don't take her yet. Two of my close friends did it because the ex bailed and run away with the kid. That's why they went court. Few of them said - Just be mutual, expensive lawyers,stress etc...

    Did have my daughter for Fathers day, and half day on 4th of July of this year.

    Like i said, ex being all nice on schedules. I just don't know when she will flip the verbal agreement.

    Any opinions would be appreciated!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    2,289

    Default Re: Debating if I Should Go Court

    If you are an unmarried father you need to go establish your paternity in court. You 100% need to do this sooner rather than later. File for custody.

    http://www.courts.state.hi.us/courts.../family_courts

    http://www.courts.state.hi.us/docs/form/maui/2FP453.pdf

    I would also take your ex off that savings account for your child if you can.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Debating if I Should Go Court

    To protect yourself completely in case your ex changes her mood/mind, then yes, definitely do what qwaspolk says. File for custody and have something signed by a judge that will let you enforce your rights as the father. This will give you peace of mind as well. I feel for your situation and can relate all too well with the whole thing. It's tough.

    It seems the savings account is being used as an unofficial child support account, which can work, but at the same time not required. While there is a paper trail that you put the money into it, there is not necessarily a similar paper trail that your ex takes the money out. Since it's a joint account that only has $120 in it, you can either just leave that, in the name of child support for your daughter, and stop depositing to that account and instead open an individual account if you want. Just keep in mind that if you do that, it will probably make her more contentious in court. I would recommend that you maintain the account as you have been until the court decides everything.

    All of that said, the two of you can write up a court order for custody/visitation/child support if you wish and are agreeable to it. A mediator isn't needed if the two of you are agreeable. Make sure to capture all the key points, then each of you can consult with a lawyer (maybe 1-2 hours) to make sure whatever you drafted protects your interests as needed. Since you have internet access, you can google to get a good idea of starting points for such an agreement. After that, you should be able to file the agreed petition with the court for that parenting plan/custody arrangement. This would then protect both of you if either one decides to change your mind and create a starting basis for modification if circumstances change in the future where the agreement no longer works for either of you or the daughter.

    Court is primarily needed when there is a dispute between the parties.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    2,289

    Default Re: Debating if I Should Go Court

    Quote Quoting vadad1
    View Post
    To protect yourself completely in case your ex changes her mood/mind, then yes, definitely do what qwaspolk says. File for custody and have something signed by a judge that will let you enforce your rights as the father. This will give you peace of mind as well. I feel for your situation and can relate all too well with the whole thing. It's tough.

    It seems the savings account is being used as an unofficial child support account, which can work, but at the same time not required. While there is a paper trail that you put the money into it, there is not necessarily a similar paper trail that your ex takes the money out. Since it's a joint account that only has $120 in it, you can either just leave that, in the name of child support for your daughter, and stop depositing to that account and instead open an individual account if you want. Just keep in mind that if you do that, it will probably make her more contentious in court. I would recommend that you maintain the account as you have been until the court decides everything.

    All of that said, the two of you can write up a court order for custody/visitation/child support if you wish and are agreeable to it. A mediator isn't needed if the two of you are agreeable. Make sure to capture all the key points, then each of you can consult with a lawyer (maybe 1-2 hours) to make sure whatever you drafted protects your interests as needed. Since you have internet access, you can google to get a good idea of starting points for such an agreement. After that, you should be able to file the agreed petition with the court for that parenting plan/custody arrangement. This would then protect both of you if either one decides to change your mind and create a starting basis for modification if circumstances change in the future where the agreement no longer works for either of you or the daughter.

    Court is primarily needed when there is a dispute between the parties.
    That's not going to count as child support. It's going to be considered a gift. Once he has child support order - it has to go through the state. Anything else is not counted. I kept telling my ex that when his first ex wife used child support against visitation and I ended up paying her directly. Then the state caught up and I paid it online to the state. But everything before that I don't know if she reported it or not.

    I say he takes the mom off that savings account and keeps it as a savings for the child for when the child is an adult.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    172

    Default Re: Debating if I Should Go Court

    Quote Quoting qwaspolk69
    View Post
    That's not going to count as child support. It's going to be considered a gift. Once he has child support order - it has to go through the state. Anything else is not counted. I kept telling my ex that when his first ex wife used child support against visitation and I ended up paying her directly. Then the state caught up and I paid it online to the state. But everything before that I don't know if she reported it or not.

    I say he takes the mom off that savings account and keeps it as a savings for the child for when the child is an adult.
    qwaspolk69 might be right - I don't know what the laws are in Hawaii. In my state the court order may allow support to be paid directly without state intervention. But also - even if they allow it, they might not consider it support.

    Hiroski808, you need to establish both a support order and parenting plan ASAP. If your ex ever ends up on welfare, the state will require you to pay back support potentially all the way back to the birth of the child. The sooner you get a support order established, the less likely you are to get nailed. As it stands, I expect you are going to be owing back support.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Debating if I Should Go Court

    Quote Quoting qwaspolk69
    View Post
    That's not going to count as child support. It's going to be considered a gift. Once he has child support order - it has to go through the state. Anything else is not counted. I kept telling my ex that when his first ex wife used child support against visitation and I ended up paying her directly. Then the state caught up and I paid it online to the state. But everything before that I don't know if she reported it or not.

    I say he takes the mom off that savings account and keeps it as a savings for the child for when the child is an adult.
    I don't know the laws in Hawaii. For my state, I'm getting paid child support not through the state as well and no problems there. I agree that doesn't count as child support currently in part because there is no actual support order. I merely suggested that it might be beneficial to keep the payment that way in the immediate term to keep the ex less contentious, which will help to minimize how much court and the costs of court needs. If the ex is obsessed or stressed about money, then changing what is the status quo can cause them to get very irate very quickly and suddenly no more negotiations can take place without lawyers.

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