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  1. #1
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    Mar 2013
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    Default Re: Violence at a Protest Rally

    The video say so much and so little, all at the same time.

    Does the male strike the female without provocation, or is he defending himself from her advancing upon him and trying to strike him in the chest?

    Is the woman advancing upon the man and attempting to hit him in the chest, or she moving forward and raising her hands in a defensive stance to hold off an angry man who is charging her?

    Did each mistakenly perceive the other was attacking them and engage in what they both thought was self defense?

    Such a distinction is impossible to make from the video and best left for the halls of debate rather than a criminal court. Given that representatives from these two groups routinely come together at Berkeley to voluntarily engage each other in violence, most prosecutors often view such matters as "mutual combat," where both participants are criminally liable under Section 415 of the Penal Code, as cdwjava pointed out. Such cases are rarely prosecuted because they are just that - mutual combat.

    It is naive to believe that the police would stop and take a time out in the middle of a riot to do a battery investigation, take names, addresses, interview victims & witnesses, find out the perception and intent of each participant to determine if this was an intentional battery or self defense, and write an investigation report while hundreds of people are tearing up the campus and downtown area. The police are going to be too busy trying to separate and disperse people, keeping the peace and arresting those who commit more serious crimes.

    This is a "go nowhere crime" with respect to prosecuting either participant for striking the other. Civil court is the best venue if either party wishes to pursue it.

  2. #2
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    Mar 2013
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    18,340

    Default Re: Violence at a Protest Rally

    Civil court is the best venue if either party wishes to pursue it.
    It would be a good one for Judge Judy.

  3. #3
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    Sep 2005
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    California
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    Default Re: Violence at a Protest Rally

    One of the best ways to address such matters is to arrest for PC 415(1) as it resolved the matter by the arrest. Even if it is not prosecuted, the parties are separated and can spend a few hours in a holding cell until released with a court date (a citation).

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
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    2,289

    Default Re: Violence at a Protest Rally

    Why can't adults just pretend to act like adults? *Sigh*

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    Tacoma, WA
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    Default Re: Violence at a Protest Rally

    I know this is a fairly old thread, but I just stumbled upon it. In my opinion, the scene shown in the video is not a “protest/counter-protest” – it is a riot, pure and simple. There is chaos and multiple acts of intentional and prolonged violence everywhere in the camera’s frame of view, even when the camera is panned.

    With nothing to go on besides the video, it is impossible to determine the actions of either of the parties OP is asking about prior to when they enter the camera’s field of view or what their intent was when they did enter view of the camera. However, it does not APPEAR that either is attempting to escape the chaos or making any attempt to calm the scene. What it APPEARS is that both are intentionally advancing to join the fray and, in so doing, engage each other. Therefore, in my opinion, neither can make a valid claim of assault as it truly was “mutual combat.” Further, because of the widespread violence going on around them, both are guilty of more than a simple disorderly conduct – akin to a couple of drunks going out behind the bar to posture and fight. I believe that it would be appropriate to charge both with rioting, which, while still a misdemeanor, carries the possibility of a stiffer penalty than disorderly.

    Unfortunately, the major media outlets delight in distorting definitions when reporting such events recently. “Peaceful protest” is interpreted as “there were sporadic acts of vandalism, major disruptions to traffic and free travel, and lots of hateful and violent rhetoric – but no major amounts of blood was spilled nor were any buildings burned (dumpsters or even vehicles don’t seem to count as “real” arson) or other violent felonies.” “Mostly peaceful protest” means “there was serious violence, property damage, arson, etc., but there is no proof that more than 50% of those present were actively engaged in any of those acts – MOST of the rioters (50.1%) limited themselves to merely actively blocking the police when they tried to identify and apprehend those so engaged.” In that media environment, few prosecutors are willing to follow through with charges for those rounded up in group arrests for things like disorderly or rioting. They will only charge those positively identifiable on video while doing things like committing felony level assaults or taking an axe to the firehose of the firemen trying to put out the arson fires. Therefore, the cops are directed to “contain” the chaos and violence rather than attempt to quell it by arresting those causing it (and risk being sued – or worse, being subjected to a civil rights investigation – for “provoking” someone already actively participating in a riot).

    Just my personal opinion and two cents on the topic – take it for what you will.

  6. #6
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    Sep 2005
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    California
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    Default Re: Violence at a Protest Rally

    Having some personal knowledge of two events in Berkeley (including the one referred to in the above video), the orders that effectively were "stand down" orders came from upon high. The first, from Admin at UC Berkeley, and the one above from BPD administration with some conflicting tales of city hall involvement.

    At least in CA (and to a good extent, OR and WA as well), there is a serious political reluctance to intervene against protesters and rioters that are to the left side of the spectrum. In CA's case, it comes from a continued rush to coddle the criminal and the deviant, and disparage all that might raise a hand to question the increased taxes, red ink, and socialist legislation.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    Somewhere near Canada
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    35,894

    Default Re: Violence at a Protest Rally

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
    View Post
    Having some personal knowledge of two events in Berkeley (including the one referred to in the above video), the orders that effectively were "stand down" orders came from upon high. The first, from Admin at UC Berkeley, and the one above from BPD administration with some conflicting tales of city hall involvement.

    At least in CA (and to a good extent, OR and WA as well), there is a serious political reluctance to intervene against protesters and rioters that are to the left side of the spectrum. In CA's case, it comes from a continued rush to coddle the criminal and the deviant, and disparage all that might raise a hand to question the increased taxes, red ink, and socialist legislation.
    Edited.

    (Not worth it ... all of that criminal and deviant activity taking over my brain, obviously)

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