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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    2

    Exclamation Parents' Rights When A Minor Is Detained


    Today my 14 year old son decided that he wanted to have a criminal record and stole some items that came to a retail total of about $69 at Target. I have a question about their policies and procedures. Unfortunately I wasn't there, but shopping two stores down, the happenings in question are what my husband has told me.

    First as my husband was leaving Target, our boys were about 4-5 feet behind him. Two of Target's loss prevention specialists placed themselves between my husband and our children, all while "pushing" the boys back into the store. I put the word pushing in quotes because though they did not touch my boys, they were taking steps back into the store therefore causing my boys to have to walk backwards or else be walked on. My husband asked them repeatedly what this was all about (all while thinking these guys were trying to take our children) and did not get a response. It wasn't until he told them that our children were not going anywhere with them that they finally decided to produce security "ID". I put ID in quotes because all he saw was a red card with the word "Security" printed on it.

    At this point my husband is a bit on edge (thinking someone is trying to take your children will do this to a person), but decides that he will see what this is all about. They take the boys into a room and tells them to empty their pockets, and out comes stolen merchandise out of our oldest son's pockets. My husband became very mad at our son and asked him what the hell he was thinking. At this time the loss prevention specialist told my husband to leave the room, because there wasn't enough room for him and both of my sons. My husband told him that he would not leave the room because our son is under 18 and he wanted to stay with him. He was then told that he had to leave and that they would remove him by force if they had to.

    The loss prevention specialist then proceded to interrogate my son with out a parent present. I want to know if this is right or legal for that matter. If it is, I am at a loss, because the police can't even question a minor without a parent present, so why would a loss prevention person be able to?

    Oh, this all happened in Washington County in the state of Oregon.

  2. #2
    panther10758 Guest

    Default Re: Question on minor/parent rights

    Everything Target did was legal although the stretched the limits some. What you need to do now is consult with a criminal defense Attorney. There could be some claims on how LP went about their job but it will not change fact they comitted a criminal act. Your boys were not harmed! Your focus now should be on their defense! Any complaint you might have take to the stores Manager

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    641

    Default Re: Question on minor/parent rights

    Quote Quoting panther10758
    View Post
    Everything Target did was legal although the stretched the limits some.
    No stretch of the limits. From what you posted, they executed this apprehension according to company policy. Your husband did not steal, so they had no reason to address him. Who is to know that he is even with your children?

    They did not physically touch your children, they positioned themselves so that they could get them to the office and recover the merchandise.

    Sometimes in older Target stores, the detention room are smaller than in the newer ones. The room could have been too crowded to function. Also, if he would have been patient and waited until instructed to speak/answer questions I am sure that things could have gone smoother. From what I read, he was on edge and probably aggravated the situation.


    Quote Quoting panther10758
    View Post
    Any complaint you might have take to the stores Manager
    No, any complaint you have take it to the Asset Protection Manager and then the District LAsset Protection Manager. Store Managers have no say or any knowledge of what happens in the AP office.

    What is your question? Can they detain them without a parent? Sure.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    641

    Default Re: Parents' Rights When A Minor Is Detained

    Quote Quoting virgo_mom
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    [FONT="Georgia"] The loss prevention specialist then proceded to interrogate my son with out a parent present. I want to know if this is right or legal for that matter. If it is, I am at a loss, because the police can't even question a minor without a parent present, so why would a loss prevention person be able to?
    What questions did they ask? Wasn't your husband in the near vicinity? Could he hear what they were asking? Remembers APS are not sworn police officers. In fact they could have just called the police, turned the juvie over to the police and not even contacted you. That happens more often than not, when the parents cannot be contacted.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    2

    Default Re: Parents' Rights When A Minor Is Detained

    First to Panther10758, I know that both of my sons committed a criminal act, and their punishment will not begin or end in court with a judge. This is not how I raise my children, unfortunately I cannot say for how my oldest (the one who had the stolen merchandise on him) is raised at his father's home, since that is where he resides. As for my youngest, though he did not steal, he acted as a watch person and has been told, by me and his dad (my current husband & my boys have different dads) that he is just as guilty as his brother. That if he sees someone do something wrong whether morally or legally, he is obligated to either try and stop it or find someone who can. Again I do not need to be reminded that my children broke the law--I am very aware of it, and I make no excuses for my children's actions. So please do not address me as if I am making excuses for my boys' actions, or that I am trying to make LP the "bad-guys", because I have worked retail, and have the utmost respect for LP. Every time someone steals that creates higher costs for consumers, and lower wages or raises for the grunts working the floor (yes, I was a grunt).
    But I digress...

    My question is not if they can detain my son without a parent present, but can they question my son without a parent present. As for LP not knowing that my husband was their father, that is not the case. I read the LP's report as he was typing it and Moses (LP) was very aware that he was the father of the boys--or that was his perception. As for my husband being aggravated, yes he was, he was thinking that two men were trying to take his children. Especially since neither of them would address him until he told them our boys weren't going anywhere until he know what was going on. Wouldn't you be?

    As for how did I read the LP's report as he was typing it? I was in the detainment room, with my son, while he was typing it. Was the room too small in my opinion? No. I would know, I spent over four hours in that damn room with my son, and with Target's LP. So why was I let in and not my husband? Yes, my husband was aggravated, but in no way did he interfere with the questioning. He simply asked my oldest son what in the hell was going on. Now if that is interfering, then why did they not kick me out when I entered the room and asked the exact same question? And yes I did this before being instructed to speak. In my opinion that theory goes out the window, too.

    So, again my question is can they question my son without a parent present? My husband was kicked out of the room, he was not able to hear what was said or asked, and yes my son said some things that I am afraid can be used in court against him. I want to know if they can use the information they obtained after my son was kicked out and before I entered the room to be with him.

  6. #6
    panther10758 Guest

    Default Re: Parents' Rights When A Minor Is Detained

    LP general questions consist of general info name address etc. They are asked to sign an acknowledgment form that inventories items stolen and their value. That is pretty much the extent of questions hardly a Police intergation! The minor could have chose to say nothing. A police officer can also question a minor without parents present. If at anytime the children refused to answer questions or requested a Lawyer then question would have to stop and any statements following that not admissiable. As a general rule parents (not you to say) are more problem during the processing than a help. The LP proably knew that and want to speed things along. I cannot say LP reasons or intent just trying to answer your questions. LP did nothing unlawful with your children

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Seattle, Wa.
    Posts
    529

    Default Re: Parents' Rights When A Minor Is Detained

    "What questions did they ask? Wasn't your husband in the near vicinity? Could he hear what they were asking?"

    If you read her statement she said the Dad was made to leave the room and the threat of force against him if he didn't. I'm pretty sure he couldn't hear through the walls so your questions are rather dumb. It sounds like the AP's didn't use a little common sense and simply tell Dad who they were and why they made the stop. It would have made a bad situation easier and Dad less likely to knock out two potential kidnappers....see bam there are the customers to think about too, Dad is a customer.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    NW of KSTL
    Posts
    2,554

    Default Re: Parents' Rights When A Minor Is Detained

    Had Dad been a "Jackie Chan" type, Target would most likely have a couple of recovering APSs in an ICU somewhere and all simply because they didn't clearly and succintly ID themselves, not only to Dad, but also to bystanders. Rule numero uno is make sure you identify yourself clearly. There were numerous ways this was handled way wrong and the AP guys need a bit o' retraining on how to make an app approach. It's not a 'one-size-fits-all' affair.

    AND, I'm not to sure of how many states ALLOW any questioning of a juvenile without a DJO present. I know mine doesn't. And I'm positive that none allow a juvenile to sign anything, like evidence inventories or anything else.

    However, I do agree with the request of Dad to wait outside. Many moons ago we allowed a dad in the app room with a particularly bad result -- dad got increasingly irate and said he was leaving with his son and we were not stopping him.....within a few minutes I ended up with 3 cracked ribs, broken wrist, 11 stitches, my partner doubled my stitch count and got a cracked jaw, 2 cops ended up a little better off then we did....dad spent 6 days in an ICU.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Parents' Rights When A Minor Is Detained

    Yes LP are not police officers and not bound by the same laws as police officers...i.e. They do not need to read miranda rights before questioning. So because the store is private property they can detain your children and tell your husband he could not stay in the room.

    Having said that if I asked a parent to leave and they refused I would simply call the police.

    If you have problems I would contact the store manager and ask for the district loss prevention managers number. It will be taken very seriously by a dlpm.

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