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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Self-Defense Against Sexual Assault

    Quote Quoting Justified Force
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    Well obviously Joe would be in the wrong when he continues to beat on Steve after Steve is no longer a threat. However, I don't see why Joe would be charged if he were to stop once Steve stops. After all, the intent of self defense is not to kill, not to injure, but to stop. If you're intent is to stop than it clearly would be a case of self defense, I would think. To continue to beat on an attacker after they're no longer a threat would show that your intent goes beyond stopping them which would cross the line so that it would no longer be self defense but excessive force.

    Self defense isn't supposed to be a get out of jail free card. Its supposed to be a not go to jail in the first place card. Self defense is a right and therefore it shouldn't get you thrown in jail any more than exercising any other right such as breathing.
    It doesn't matter if the intent was to stop if the person didn't stop. Joe didn't stop beating on Steve even after he was no longer a threat because he got caught up in his anger and fear.

    Here's another scenario. It's from Law and Order SVU so yes it's a TV show but relates. When Olivia Benson was kidnapped by William Lewis he incapacitated her. Put her in the back of a car and kept her drunk and drugged while he took her somewhere to probably rape her. Sadistic character. They got to an empty beach house. He handcuffed her to a bed. At some point she broke loose. She handcuffed him to the bed and eventually she brutally beat him because he instigated her to do it. He was subdued at any point of his many injuries (as he brings up in court later). I doubt she thought once she got free she would kill him. But he got into her head and she snapped. Beat him nearly to death. Eventually I think she got brought up on excessive force because at first she lied about it in court.

    I was giving an example to show when self defense goes overboard. There's another. But you can't say there is intent. Not to start with. She didn't intend to kill him that day or when he kidnapped her. You can't predict human emotions in a situation like that.

    Quote Quoting Dogmatique
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    So, in a situation of "he said/she said" ... exactly who should we believe?

    Hmm?
    Or he said/he said or she said/she said...

  2. #22

    Default Re: Self-Defense Against Sexual Assault

    Well Im not talking about a situation where a would be victim continues to beat on a perpetrator after they're subdued. Im talking about a situation where, as I discussed earlier, lets say Im in college and some other guy in college gropes or tries to grope me. I punch him in the face once. Why would I get in trouble for that? That would clearly be self defense. Im not using any weapons and the perpetrator is a large man, not a woman or a child. I don't continue to beat on him after he's stopped so why would taking one punch in self defense get me in trouble?

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Self-Defense Against Sexual Assault

    Clearly you are not prepared to accept any answer except that you would be legally justified in returning force for force no matter what the situation.

    So if someone will tell you that, will you finally go away? I will be happy to tell you anything you want to hear if it will stop your incessant whining. I won't necessarily believe it, but I'll say it.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Self-Defense Against Sexual Assault

    Quote Quoting Justified Force
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    Well Im not talking about a situation where a would be victim continues to beat on a perpetrator after they're subdued. Im talking about a situation where, as I discussed earlier, lets say Im in college and some other guy in college gropes or tries to grope me. I punch him in the face once. Why would I get in trouble for that? That would clearly be self defense. Im not using any weapons and the perpetrator is a large man, not a woman or a child. I don't continue to beat on him after he's stopped so why would taking one punch in self defense get me in trouble?
    Because a punch is much bigger than a grope. The reaction should be equal to the action. If the reaction is bigger than the action, then the person reacting has a problem.

    Tries to grope you = walk away. Actually gropes you = push his hand away. A punch in the face is not = to either of these two scenarios, it's OTT...and that's why you would be in trouble.

    (Not that I think you would understand this. Just posting 'cause I'm in a time-wasting mood.)

    Just curious - why are you so worried about guys groping you?

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Self-Defense Against Sexual Assault

    psst...ee...it's because he wants "self-defense" to be magic words that will allow him to throw punches and walk away with no legal issues. There just HAS to be a situation where he gets to punch people and not have to suffer any repercussions and he thinks maybe a sex angle will allow him to do it.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Self-Defense Against Sexual Assault

    Quote Quoting cbg
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    psst...ee...it's because he wants "self-defense" to be magic words that will allow him to throw punches and walk away with no legal issues. There just HAS to be a situation where he gets to punch people and not have to suffer any repercussions and he thinks maybe a sex angle will allow him to do it.
    Agree. I'm just trying to throw some logic into this. Probably a waste of time (as I alluded to above).

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Self-Defense Against Sexual Assault

    Quote Quoting eerelations
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    Because a punch is much bigger than a grope.
    MUCH bigger. Much, much bigger.

    *tongue in cheek*


  8. #28
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    Default Re: Self-Defense Against Sexual Assault

    Quote Quoting Justified Force
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    Well Im not talking about a situation where a would be victim continues to beat on a perpetrator after they're subdued. Im talking about a situation where, as I discussed earlier, lets say Im in college and some other guy in college gropes or tries to grope me. I punch him in the face once. Why would I get in trouble for that? That would clearly be self defense. Im not using any weapons and the perpetrator is a large man, not a woman or a child. I don't continue to beat on him after he's stopped so why would taking one punch in self defense get me in trouble?
    You wouldn't if you only punched him once and he was subdued and you left the situation. Why? Did that happen?

    But if he only groped you and you punched him I guess I see it. Idk. I've been groped by guys and didn't punch them. I removed myself from the situation.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Self-Defense Against Sexual Assault

    Quote Quoting Justified Force
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    Well Im not talking about a situation where a would be victim continues to beat on a perpetrator after they're subdued. Im talking about a situation where, as I discussed earlier, lets say Im in college and some other guy in college gropes or tries to grope me. I punch him in the face once. Why would I get in trouble for that? That would clearly be self defense. Im not using any weapons and the perpetrator is a large man, not a woman or a child. I don't continue to beat on him after he's stopped so why would taking one punch in self defense get me in trouble?
    Homophobic much there, JF?

    I wonder why that might be.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Self-Defense Against Sexual Assault

    Quote Quoting Justified Force
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    Well Im not talking about a situation where a would be victim continues to beat on a perpetrator after they're subdued. Im talking about a situation where, as I discussed earlier, lets say Im in college and some other guy in college gropes or tries to grope me. I punch him in the face once. Why would I get in trouble for that? That would clearly be self defense. Im not using any weapons and the perpetrator is a large man, not a woman or a child. I don't continue to beat on him after he's stopped so why would taking one punch in self defense get me in trouble?
    Do you get sexually assaulted by children often? What's the difference if it's a woman or a man who gropes you? The response should be the same...if it's just a grope walk away. If they come after you, you defend yourself. A punch probably isn't the first response to a grope.

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