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  1. #1

    Default Why Wouldn't the Police Make a Domestic Violence Arrest

    My question involves criminal law for the state of: OR

    Situation happened a few days ago and has been bugging me tremendously. Awoke from sleep to hear girl next door screaming and pleading (sounded like through tone of voice) for boyfriend to stop attacking her, though I couldn't make out any actual words. Sounded like girl was getting thrown against wall. Immediately went over to knock on their door, boyfriend opened and I asked if everything was alright, he said yeah. I asked are you sure you aren't beating up your girlfriend? He shows me his arms with deep defensive scratch wounds, and tells me 'I'm trying to restrain her.' Maybe I made a mistake here, but I told him "that's a felony crime and you are committing domestic violence, I'm calling the police." He say's OK, do it. So I call the police, and they show up 25 minutes later, yawning as they approach his door. Knock on the door, he won't open. I go to the store, and come back and see police leaving, without him in their car. I ask what's up, and they said he wouldn't show them his arms (I assume that he covered them), and they didn't have the elements of a crime. From my perspective, the girl was too afraid to tell police he beat her, and they also paid no regard to what I witnessed. I just think it's really sad the police just walked away from this, because it was such an obvious case of DV and they couldn't do anything to help the girl out. There was also an eviction notice plastered to their door, maybe this had something to do with things.

    Can someone explain based on what I just described, if it is true that the police didn't have the elements required for a DV arrest? Is this result my fault for having gone over and confronted him about this situation, and spouting off laws?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Why Wasn't There an Arrest

    Quote Quoting ignoramus23
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    Can someone explain based on what I just described, if it is true that the police didn't have the elements required for a DV arrest? Is this result my fault for having gone over and confronted him about this situation, and spouting off laws?
    Well, I don’t see how you can be accused of any fault for confronting the BF or any statements you mentioned in your post (although the statement regarding his committing a felony was likely erroneous). However, it is impossible to say whether the police found the necessary evidence to make a DV arrest.

    You say you left as the police arrived and only returned as they were leaving. Meaning, you were unavailable to provide a statement while they were investigating. So, all they had from you was whatever you told the dispatcher when you called 911. What you told dispatch was enough for them to respond and investigate, but they could not use anything you told dispatch as actual evidentiary testimony. In order to use your witness statements as part of their probable cause for an arrest, they would need to verify your identity and get an official statement so that you could be called to testify in court, if necessary. Even then, the information you provide in your post is pretty subjective. You heard a woman’s voice in a tone that you interpreted as fearful, but you could not hear what was actually said or even who specifically was speaking. You heard noises that you interpreted to be sounds of a physical altercation, but you do not know the actual cause of those noises or who was responsible for them. You saw scratches on the BF’s arms, but cannot actually refute his claim to you that they were defensive wounds.

    Unless the cops totally ignored their duty (which would open them up to significant civil liability and even possibly criminal prosecution), they likely did what they are legally allowed to do to investigate. This would include: 1. entering into and conducting a sweep of the residence to ensure that they were aware of everyone inside; 2. Speaking to all parties separately; 3. Examining the residence for signs of struggle; 4. Examining both parties for visible signs of having been in a physical altercation; and comparing the statements of both parties with any visible, contradictory evidence. What they could NOT do includes coercing statements from either party or forcing the BF to expose his arms (or any other body part covered by clothing) without a warrant (which they likely would not have evidence to support). If, after that, they were unable to determine that an assault actually occurred AND who was the primary aggressor (it is not always clear cut and you cannot just assume it was the male – women commit DV assaults, too!), then there is no probable cause for an arrest.

    DV investigations are typically not as clear cut and easy for police as many non-police believe (and, frankly, you “yawning” comment above implies a negatively judgmental bias against police from the outset). What you believe happened (and, may well have happened) is often much different than what investigating police can present as evidence sufficient to secure a conviction in court.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Why Wouldn't the Police Make a Domestic Violence Arrest

    Quote Quoting ignoramus23
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    My question involves criminal law for the state of: OR

    Situation happened a few days ago and has been bugging me tremendously. Awoke from sleep to hear girl next door screaming and pleading (sounded like through tone of voice) for boyfriend to stop attacking her, though I couldn't make out any actual words. Sounded like girl was getting thrown against wall. Immediately went over to knock on their door, boyfriend opened and I asked if everything was alright, he said yeah. I asked are you sure you aren't beating up your girlfriend? He shows me his arms with deep defensive scratch wounds, and tells me 'I'm trying to restrain her.' Maybe I made a mistake here, but I told him "that's a felony crime and you are committing domestic violence, I'm calling the police." He say's OK, do it. So I call the police, and they show up 25 minutes later, yawning as they approach his door. Knock on the door, he won't open. I go to the store, and come back and see police leaving, without him in their car. I ask what's up, and they said he wouldn't show them his arms (I assume that he covered them), and they didn't have the elements of a crime. From my perspective, the girl was too afraid to tell police he beat her, and they also paid no regard to what I witnessed. I just think it's really sad the police just walked away from this, because it was such an obvious case of DV and they couldn't do anything to help the girl out. There was also an eviction notice plastered to their door, maybe this had something to do with things.

    Can someone explain based on what I just described, if it is true that the police didn't have the elements required for a DV arrest? Is this result my fault for having gone over and confronted him about this situation, and spouting off laws?
    If he wasn't beating her when they showed up and they saw no wounds on either of the people in that house, then how are they supposed to arrest anyone for domestic violence? Maybe she was attacking him and he did try to restrain her. You weren't in the house so you don't know what actually happened. Women can be abusive too.

    YOU didn't witness anything. You saw marks on his arm. He said he wasn't beating her.

    This isn't an obvious case of anything. It's obvious that they had an argument that you overheard but all you did was over hear them. How do you know she hadn't attacked him and then when he tried to leave or restrain her she started to scream that he was hurting her? There are some shady women out there who will fake an attack. Not a lot but some. What if she was throwing crap against the wall because she knew you would hear?

    You don't know what the police saw. You don't know what happened in that house. You did what you thought was right by knocking on the door. But you left - so you don't know what the police saw, asked or did. You honestly don't know what happened at all. He could have been the victim. They both could have abused each other. But they didn't tell the police anything so what can the police do?

    If you were a cop who showed up to a report of dv but there wasn't any evidence of it and no one would file a report on the other person, what would you do?

    Domestic violence reports are not the easiest to investigate. Especially when it's he said/she said. Or when no one says anything.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Why Wouldn't the Police Make a Domestic Violence Arrest

    Quote Quoting ignoramus23
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    My question involves criminal law for the state of: OR

    Situation happened a few days ago and has been bugging me tremendously. Awoke from sleep to hear girl next door screaming and pleading (sounded like through tone of voice) for boyfriend to stop attacking her, though I couldn't make out any actual words. Sounded like girl was getting thrown against wall. Immediately went over to knock on their door, boyfriend opened and I asked if everything was alright, he said yeah. I asked are you sure you aren't beating up your girlfriend? He shows me his arms with deep defensive scratch wounds, and tells me 'I'm trying to restrain her.' Maybe I made a mistake here, but I told him "that's a felony crime and you are committing domestic violence, I'm calling the police." He say's OK, do it. So I call the police, and they show up 25 minutes later, yawning as they approach his door. Knock on the door, he won't open. I go to the store, and come back and see police leaving, without him in their car. I ask what's up, and they said he wouldn't show them his arms (I assume that he covered them), and they didn't have the elements of a crime. From my perspective, the girl was too afraid to tell police he beat her, and they also paid no regard to what I witnessed. I just think it's really sad the police just walked away from this, because it was such an obvious case of DV and they couldn't do anything to help the girl out. There was also an eviction notice plastered to their door, maybe this had something to do with things.

    Can someone explain based on what I just described, if it is true that the police didn't have the elements required for a DV arrest? Is this result my fault for having gone over and confronted him about this situation, and spouting off laws?
    Why didn't you simply call the police instead of charging in like a bull in a china shop?! You witnessed nothing, except a man who had scratches on his arms. Where on earth do you get that it was "obvious" domestic violence and that SHE was terrified?

    Yes, you made a mistake. Yes, you made assumptions that you shouldn't have made. Next time don't assume you know what's going on, and just call the police and let them deal with it.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Why Wouldn't the Police Make a Domestic Violence Arrest

    All makes sense. And yes, in fact I have been in a domestic situation myself as Quaspolk69 described where the woman manipulated the situation to stage an attack... and it worked and got me arrested, but was found not guilty at trial.

    I went over to knock on the door because what I heard was nasty, and it made me scared, and I wanted it to stop. I had no idea how much more it would escalate in the time it would take police to get there. Call me stupid for doing that, but I can tell you I'm not the only man who would do what I did. I got the idea that SHE was terrified based on the screams I heard next door from her, its pretty easy to tell fear in someone's voice, I also heard someone/something getting thrashed around... you are being too critical of me if you don't think a reasonable person can't at least question that someone might be getting the living heck beat out of them based on what I described.

    Also, I didn't exactly charge into their home and start kicking his butt, I respected the laws and the rights of everyone, confronted the person who is typically the primary aggressor and who I believed to be the aggressor from what I heard, and left and called the police. And it worked because the fighting stopped until the police showed up 25 minutes later.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Why Wouldn't the Police Make a Domestic Violence Arrest

    Police need probable cause to make an arrest. They will typically want either documented injuries or an independent witness to the battery, and preferably both. And without a cooperative victim it is next to impossible to obtain a conviction.

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    Default Re: Why Wouldn't the Police Make a Domestic Violence Arrest

    Quote Quoting ignoramus23
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    All makes sense. And yes, in fact I have been in a domestic situation myself as Quaspolk69 described where the woman manipulated the situation to stage an attack... and it worked and got me arrested, but was found not guilty at trial.

    I went over to knock on the door because what I heard was nasty, and it made me scared, and I wanted it to stop. I had no idea how much more it would escalate in the time it would take police to get there. Call me stupid for doing that, but I can tell you I'm not the only man who would do what I did. I got the idea that SHE was terrified based on the screams I heard next door from her, its pretty easy to tell fear in someone's voice, I also heard someone/something getting thrashed around... you are being too critical of me if you don't think a reasonable person can't at least question that someone might be getting the living heck beat out of them based on what I described.

    Also, I didn't exactly charge into their home and start kicking his butt, I respected the laws and the rights of everyone, confronted the person who is typically the primary aggressor and who I believed to be the aggressor from what I heard, and left and called the police. And it worked because the fighting stopped until the police showed up 25 minutes later.
    A reasonable person would have called the police and waited for them to turn up.

    But that's just me.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Why Wouldn't the Police Make a Domestic Violence Arrest

    Quote Quoting ignoramus23
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    All makes sense. And yes, in fact I have been in a domestic situation myself as Quaspolk69 described where the woman manipulated the situation to stage an attack... and it worked and got me arrested, but was found not guilty at trial.

    I went over to knock on the door because what I heard was nasty, and it made me scared, and I wanted it to stop. I had no idea how much more it would escalate in the time it would take police to get there. Call me stupid for doing that, but I can tell you I'm not the only man who would do what I did. I got the idea that SHE was terrified based on the screams I heard next door from her, its pretty easy to tell fear in someone's voice, I also heard someone/something getting thrashed around... you are being too critical of me if you don't think a reasonable person can't at least question that someone might be getting the living heck beat out of them based on what I described.

    Also, I didn't exactly charge into their home and start kicking his butt, I respected the laws and the rights of everyone, confronted the person who is typically the primary aggressor and who I believed to be the aggressor from what I heard, and left and called the police. And it worked because the fighting stopped until the police showed up 25 minutes later.
    So you should have called the police. What if one of the people attacked you? What if someone had a gun? What if they had a weapon? Then you get hurt and for what reason? Yeah I think you are one of a very few men OR women who would go to someone's house after hearing yelling and fighting. Most people would not interfere even on the street.

    A reasonable person would call the cops. And a reasonable person wouldn't assume what was going on.

    You didn't solve anything or stop anything. Now whoever was the aggressor will just be more discreet because they know the nosy neighbor is listening.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Why Wouldn't the Police Make a Domestic Violence Arrest

    Quote Quoting qwaspolk69
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    Now whoever was the aggressor will just be more discreet because they know the nosy neighbor is listening.
    Not gonna accept that. There is nothing nosy about intervening in or calling authorities to break up domestic violence. It is the community's responsibility to quash out the scourge that is intimate partner violence, because often times the victims won't report it themselves for a million reasons. Trust me, I've done my research on domestic violence, and the best thing that can be done is to bring it to the attention of authorities, which I did. Thanks for your opinions there, though. Next time, he knows I'm gonna be listening for DV and he knows I'm gonna call the police if I hear it, because none of the people in my community are going to tolerate it. We are also going to look for signs of abuse in the girl.... and perhaps even the guy if you are all so intent that he could have been the one getting abused (lol guy is twice her size). The law has a really effective way of dealing with domestic abusers in a way that will burn them so bad that they'll think twice about ever doing it again.

    Also, there is an interesting YouTube video out there where they had couples stage DV in a public park to see what people's reactions would be. Quite a few men bystanders stepped in when they saw the man beating on the woman. I definitely feel like there is a social responsibility there, in addition to calling the police.

    Sorry for coming off a bit emotional here with this, but I have a lifelong history with exposure to this kind of stuff... and it destroys lives if no one ever gets in the way to intervene.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Why Wouldn't the Police Make a Domestic Violence Arrest

    Calling the police and even attempting to intervene are admirable actions, and I do not have a problem with that. But, as has been well-stated here, the police cannot simply make an arrest because you called the police to report a POSSIBLE DV. As has been explained, they must have probable cause to believe that a crime occurred and that the person to be arrested committed the crime. You do not know what the police saw or heard when they were there. While it is possible that they were lazy sots, it is more likely that they were unable to overcome the legal barriers towards an arrest and, instead, were left with either a report of a verbal argument or a log entry (depending on the reporting requirements for such matters in OR).

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