Results 1 to 7 of 7
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    14

    Default Tenants Don't Want to Pay Rent Due to Water Leaks

    My question involves landlord-tenant law in the State of: Michigan

    3 bedroom single family home, tenants on month to month lease.

    We purchased this home exactly 1 year ago this month and these tenants are the first to occupy it since we purchased it. In the past year we have had no complaints from this tenant. They’ve paid every month and are frequently late but they always pay by date they negotiate with us.

    This home has a partially finished basement with a pretty nice bathroom but was not advertised as a bedroom. However, these tenants do not use any of the 3 bedrooms upstairs and they use the basement as the bedroom for themselves and 3 month old baby.

    In January 2016, the tenants called saying the basement bathroom toilet was backing up and leaked on the floor. We thought it was a clog and called a drain company. They told us it wasn’t a clog and we learned that the bathroom operated on an up-flush system and the pump was bad. So we called a full service plumbing company who confirmed that a feminine product jammed up the pump and it needed to be replaced. They gave us a quote and started the work the next day. ½ way through the job the plumber called and said he didn’t feel comfortable finishing the job because he didn’t think that was a correct and permanent fix. Yes, this was the same plumber who diagnosed the problem so not sure why he didn’t discover that before he started. Anyway, he suggested we do a complete tear out and run piping under the concrete instead. Because the cost of the new plan increased by 5x’s the original amount and was now $5,600, we filed an insurance claim. It took some time but the claims has now been approved and we are just waiting for the checks. But because this has taken some time, we agreed to reduce the rent because they cannot use the bathroom.

    Fast forward to February 1st, tenants call and say rent will be late and they feel we should reduce the rent because of the basement bathroom issue. We agree and make an offer but we get no response from them. Then all hell breaks loose…

    Monday (1/6/17) the tenant called saying water was dripping down the 4’ pipe from the upstairs toilet to the basement. Called the plumber that same day, all fixed. Wax ring needed to be replaced.

    Yesterday (1/7/17), the tenants called again saying the sump pump was overflowing. Called plumber again, the sump pump is now fixed as well. Somehow it was not secured so when it turns on, it would bump against the side of the pipe/drain (not sure what it’s called) and would turn itself off.

    For the 1st time in our 7 years of being a landlord, we put the tenants in a hotel last night because they were so irate that their 3 month old was sleeping in a wet basement, I was just tired of fighting and I hoped this gesture would allow for some productive negotiations. But looking back, I am not sure this was required or a good idea considering the basement is not a bedroom. They are adamant that they should not have to pay any of February rent because now they claim that water leaks have been an issue since they moved in but they never told us because they didn’t want to bother us. 7 day notice has already been sent so I have that covered but I’m a little torn here. We would like to negotiate their swift departure. I assume they want to move and don’t have the money to pay rent and move, so now the house is “unfit for occupancy and their buddy is who is licensed is going to red tag it for them”, all the usual threats that make no sense. My position is that they should definitely pay at least ½ of the rent but I’m considering waiving all the rent if they are out by the end of February. This would allow us to complete the basement bathroom demo without having to schedule with the tenant and we wouldn’t be pressured into hotel stays because their “bedroom” would be a construction area.

    I am used to handling issues with our homes but considering there were so many in such a short span, maybe I should be more sympathetic but I suspect they’ll accept not paying February rent and then continue to push for more. The tenant is the classic of bully, he hovers, interrupts and attempts to hijack meetings with plumbers or contractors. I make it a point to have all discussions outside and that just makes them more upset. So it’s time to end this tenancy.

    I appreciate any feedback from others on how this could have been handled differently or what others have done in similar situations.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    16,474

    Default Re: Tenants Don't Want to Pay Rent Due to Water Leaks

    Quote Quoting Jennisam223
    View Post
    My question involves landlord-tenant law in the State of: Michigan

    3 bedroom single family home, tenants on month to month lease.

    We purchased this home exactly 1 year ago this month and these tenants are the first to occupy it since we purchased it. In the past year we have had no complaints from this tenant. They’ve paid every month and are frequently late but they always pay by date they negotiate with us.

    This home has a partially finished basement with a pretty nice bathroom but was not advertised as a bedroom. However, these tenants do not use any of the 3 bedrooms upstairs and they use the basement as the bedroom for themselves and 3 month old baby.

    In January 2016, the tenants called saying the basement bathroom toilet was backing up and leaked on the floor. We thought it was a clog and called a drain company. They told us it wasn’t a clog and we learned that the bathroom operated on an up-flush system and the pump was bad. So we called a full service plumbing company who confirmed that a feminine product jammed up the pump and it needed to be replaced. They gave us a quote and started the work the next day. ½ way through the job the plumber called and said he didn’t feel comfortable finishing the job because he didn’t think that was a correct and permanent fix. Yes, this was the same plumber who diagnosed the problem so not sure why he didn’t discover that before he started. Anyway, he suggested we do a complete tear out and run piping under the concrete instead. Because the cost of the new plan increased by 5x’s the original amount and was now $5,600, we filed an insurance claim. It took some time but the claims has now been approved and we are just waiting for the checks. But because this has taken some time, we agreed to reduce the rent because they cannot use the bathroom.

    Fast forward to February 1st, tenants call and say rent will be late and they feel we should reduce the rent because of the basement bathroom issue. We agree and make an offer but we get no response from them. Then all hell breaks loose…

    Monday (1/6/17) the tenant called saying water was dripping down the 4’ pipe from the upstairs toilet to the basement. Called the plumber that same day, all fixed. Wax ring needed to be replaced.

    Yesterday (1/7/17), the tenants called again saying the sump pump was overflowing. Called plumber again, the sump pump is now fixed as well. Somehow it was not secured so when it turns on, it would bump against the side of the pipe/drain (not sure what it’s called) and would turn itself off.

    For the 1st time in our 7 years of being a landlord, we put the tenants in a hotel last night because they were so irate that their 3 month old was sleeping in a wet basement, I was just tired of fighting and I hoped this gesture would allow for some productive negotiations. But looking back, I am not sure this was required or a good idea considering the basement is not a bedroom. They are adamant that they should not have to pay any of February rent because now they claim that water leaks have been an issue since they moved in but they never told us because they didn’t want to bother us. 7 day notice has already been sent so I have that covered but I’m a little torn here. We would like to negotiate their swift departure. I assume they want to move and don’t have the money to pay rent and move, so now the house is “unfit for occupancy and their buddy is who is licensed is going to red tag it for them”, all the usual threats that make no sense. My position is that they should definitely pay at least ½ of the rent but I’m considering waiving all the rent if they are out by the end of February. This would allow us to complete the basement bathroom demo without having to schedule with the tenant and we wouldn’t be pressured into hotel stays because their “bedroom” would be a construction area.

    I am used to handling issues with our homes but considering there were so many in such a short span, maybe I should be more sympathetic but I suspect they’ll accept not paying February rent and then continue to push for more. The tenant is the classic of bully, he hovers, interrupts and attempts to hijack meetings with plumbers or contractors. I make it a point to have all discussions outside and that just makes them more upset. So it’s time to end this tenancy.

    I appreciate any feedback from others on how this could have been handled differently or what others have done in similar situations.
    How were the actual bedrooms being used?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    14

    Default Re: Tenants Don't Want to Pay Rent Due to Water Leaks

    Good question, the doors are always closed. All of their bedroom furniture and baby's crib are in the basement. There is no door for privacy leading to the basement or separating their "room" from the rest for the basement. The basement is nice but makes no sense to sleep down there and it is only partially finished.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    18,340

    Default Re: Tenants Don't Want to Pay Rent Due to Water Leaks

    Quote Quoting Jennisam223
    View Post
    Good question, the doors are always closed. All of their bedroom furniture and baby's crib are in the basement. There is no door for privacy leading to the basement or separating their "room" from the rest for the basement. The basement is nice but makes no sense to sleep down there and it is only partially finished.
    Former landlord's comments:

    Sorry, but you rented them the whole house. They are entitled to use the whole house as a house. If they want to sleep in the basement that is none of your business. The basement still needs to be in good repair whether it's a basement or a room. Might not make sense to you to sleep down there, but it makes sense to them and that's all that counts. Could be as simple a reason as a reduction in heating costs to just heat the basement and not use the upstairs rooms. Anyway, it's not your call.

    Turns out you just got yourself a set of crappy tenants. Keep going with the non-pay eviction and get rid of them as fast as possible, fix the house and start over.

    If you lose a month's rent, you lose a month's rent. It happens. If you can afford a rental (or more than one) you should be well equipped financially to handle some down time.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    14

    Default Re: Tenants Don't Want to Pay Rent Due to Water Leaks

    You are correct, 1 month will not hurt and I'd take that all day if I thought they'd leave. In order to proceed with eviction for non payment of rent, I cannot waive the rent, correct?

    One of my concerns is that the fix requires breaking up concrete which will likely result in dust being an issue in the basement. From the tenants point of view, not being able to sleep down there means I should put them in a hotel. My position on that is absolutely not. But one of the reasons I come here is for suggestions and other points of view. So...

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    16,474

    Default Re: Tenants Don't Want to Pay Rent Due to Water Leaks

    Quote Quoting adjusterjack
    View Post
    Former landlord's comments:

    Sorry, but you rented them the whole house. They are entitled to use the whole house as a house. If they want to sleep in the basement that is none of your business. The basement still needs to be in good repair whether it's a basement or a room. Might not make sense to you to sleep down there, but it makes sense to them and that's all that counts. Could be as simple a reason as a reduction in heating costs to just heat the basement and not use the upstairs rooms. Anyway, it's not your call.

    Turns out you just got yourself a set of crappy tenants. Keep going with the non-pay eviction and get rid of them as fast as possible, fix the house and start over.

    If you lose a month's rent, you lose a month's rent. It happens. If you can afford a rental (or more than one) you should be well equipped financially to handle some down time.
    I do not disagree with you but it does go to habitability. Generally plumbing problems in a semi finished basement would not render a home uninhabitable.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    47.606 N 122.332 W in body, still at 90 S in my mind.
    Posts
    1,678

    Default Re: Tenants Don't Want to Pay Rent Due to Water Leaks

    The plumber cannot compel you to completely shred your basement because he's uncomfortable. Using a lift pump to lift sewage is a perfectly legitimate means of addressing a bathroom that is below the sewage line.

    Just get rid of these tenants and count your blessings. Hell, I'd try to charge them for replacing the pump. After flushing something that shouldn't have been flushed.

    1. Sponsored Links
       

Similar Threads

  1. Rent and Utilities: Can Tenants Demand a Water Bill Refund at the End of a Tenancy
    By lawfacts in forum Landlord-Tenant Law
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-29-2016, 12:22 PM
  2. Repair and Maintenance: Are Tenants Liable When Their Guests Flood the Unit by Damaging a Water Pipe
    By Nbachamp45 in forum Landlord-Tenant Law
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-19-2016, 08:16 PM
  3. Repair and Maintenance: Getting Repair of Numerous Water Leaks
    By iluvusc818 in forum Landlord-Tenant Law
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 08-30-2013, 02:41 PM
  4. Seller Disclosure: Failure to Disclose Foundation Defects, Water Leaks
    By jeny04 in forum Buying, Selling and Conveying Real Estate
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-01-2013, 01:14 PM
  5. Repair and Maintenance: Rights to Withhold Rent or Break Lease Due to Chronic Water Leaks
    By koskic in forum Landlord-Tenant Law
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02-12-2011, 05:43 AM
 
 
Sponsored Links

Legal Help, Information and Resources