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  1. #1
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    Default Does a Judge Have Discretion to Rule on a Motion Following a Jurisdiction Challenge

    My question involves court procedures for the state of: CT

    Does a judge have discretion to rule on a motion for compliance following a challenge to the courts subject matter jurisdiction?


    Is the act of a judges discretion a jurisdictional act?
    If the courts subject matter jurisdiction has been challenged in a motion to dismiss; does a judge have discretion to rule on a preceding motion for compliance of discovery?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Does a Judge Have Discretion to Rule on a Motion Following a Jurisdiction Challen

    Who else do you think would make that initial determination at the trial court level? Every act of a sitting judge is a jurisdictional act.

    Your answer is, yesery Bob, absolutely, no question. You are free to file an appeal (interlocutory or otherwise) if that is what you chose to do. This is no doubt another armchair pro se situation.

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    Default Re: Does a Judge Have Discretion to Rule on a Motion Following a Jurisdiction Challen

    Quote Quoting budwad
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    Who else do you think would make that initial determination at the trial court level? Every act of a sitting judge is a jurisdictional act.

    Your answer is, yesery Bob, absolutely, no question. You are free to file an appeal (interlocutory or otherwise) if that is what you chose to do. This is no doubt another armchair pro se situation.
    I am not sure that you should be so absolute about that. A motion has been filed to dismiss the case based on a lack of subject matter jurisdiction. I do not believe that the judge should be ruling on any other matters prior to hearing the motion to dismiss.

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    Default Re: Does a Judge Have Discretion to Rule on a Motion Following a Jurisdiction Challen

    Quote Quoting kcurran@journeyeast.org
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    My question involves court procedures for the state of: CT

    Is the act of a judges discretion a jurisdictional act?
    I don’t know what you mean by the term “jurisdictional act.” It is not at all a common legal term, if it is a legal term at all. It does not appear in Black’s Law Dictionary. But knowing that is not really important to answering your basic question:

    Quote Quoting kcurran@journeyeast.org
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    If the courts subject matter jurisdiction has been challenged in a motion to dismiss; does a judge have discretion to rule on a preceding motion for compliance of discovery?
    Typically the answer to that is yes, the court may still rule on procedural matters like discovery while considering a motion to dismiss. A motion to dismiss is not a tactic one may use to immediately shut down the progress of the lawsuit while the motion is being considered.

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    Default Re: Does a Judge Have Discretion to Rule on a Motion Following a Jurisdiction Challen

    Quote Quoting Taxing Matters
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    I don’t know what you mean by the term “jurisdictional act.” It is not at all a common legal term, if it is a legal term at all. It does not appear in Black’s Law Dictionary. But knowing that is not really important to answering your basic question:



    Typically the answer to that is yes, the court may still rule on procedural matters like discovery while considering a motion to dismiss. A motion to dismiss is not a tactic one may use to immediately shut down the progress of the lawsuit while the motion is being considered.
    But this is a motion challenging jurisdiction. If the defendant cooperates with discovery or any other procedural matters would not the defendant be subjecting themselves to the court's jurisdiction?

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    Default Re: Does a Judge Have Discretion to Rule on a Motion Following a Jurisdiction Challen

    ^ Can't you file a motion to dismiss for lack of subject matter jurisdiction at pretty much any time? This is logical - during discovery, it may come out that the court ought not to have jurisdiction. What other court would rule on that?

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    Default Re: Does a Judge Have Discretion to Rule on a Motion Following a Jurisdiction Challen

    Quote Quoting crymeariver
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    ^ Can't you file a motion to dismiss for lack of subject matter jurisdiction at pretty much any time? This is logical - during discovery, it may come out that the court ought not to have jurisdiction. What other court would rule on that?
    no you can't.

    A challenge of subject matter jurisdiction must be made before general proceedings have begun. Once you have allowed the court involved to start general proceedings you have accepted the jurisdiction of
    the court. I cannot think of a situation where it would be realized a court doesn't have jurisdiction, in general, due to the results of discovery. There may be particular matters within the case the court cannot express authority over but jurisdiction is determinable at the onset of the case.

    Jusidictional matters, whether they are subject matter, personal, or venue, must be addressed at the onset of the case. Once a party submits to the jurisdiction of the court, that court now has the authority to rule on the case. Of course if an objection to the jurisdiction has been made and overruled, if the party believes the ruling was incorrect that may allow for an appeal at some point later but in most court issues, if you do not speak up when an action is taken, you often lose the right to object later.

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    Default Re: Does a Judge Have Discretion to Rule on a Motion Following a Jurisdiction Challen

    Quote Quoting jk
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    no you can't.

    A challenge of subject matter jurisdiction must be made before general proceedings have begun. Once you have allowed the court involved to start general proceedings you have accepted the jurisdiction of the court.
    That's not right. You are conflating subject matter and personal jurisdiction. They are very distinctly different concepts. Subject matter jurisdiction refers to “jurisdiction over the nature of the case and the type of relief sought.” Black’s Law Dictionary, 8th Ed (Black’s). A court either has subject matter jurisdiction or it does not. It is not possible for the parties to grant a court subject matter jurisdiction that it does not otherwise have. If a court lacks subject matter jurisdiction, it lacks the power to hear the case and must dismiss it, no matter how far along the case is. For that reason, the basic rule the courts use is that a challenge to subject matter jurisdiction may be raised at any time. For example, the U.S. Supreme Court noted the federal rule on this, which dates back more than two centuries: “Challenges to subject-matter jurisdiction can of course be raised at any time prior to final judgment. See Capron v. Van Noorden, 2 Cranch 126 (1804).” Grupo Dataflux V. Atlas Global Group, L. P. 541 U.S. 567 (2004).

    Personal jurisdiction, on the other hand, is the power “to bring a person into its adjudicative process.” Black’s. In other words it is the power of the court over the person such that orders of the court would be binding on that person. Here, the rule is different. A person may agree to personal jurisdiction of the court even though the court would not otherwise have had it. And generally a person must is deemed to have consented to jurisdiction if he or she participates in the case (e.g. by filing an complaint, answer, etc). For that reason, challenges to personal jurisdiction generally do have to be addressed up front. Jurisdictions vary on how lack of personal jurisdiction ought to be handled by a potential defendant.

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