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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Iowa
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    Default How Long Can the Police Detain Somebody for Failing to Provide ID

    My question involves police conduct in the State of: Texas

    This is a completely hypothetical question that I thought of while watching a certain Youtuber get arrested for failure to ID while filming in public.

    Texas Penal Code Sec. 38.02. states the following:

    FAILURE TO IDENTIFY. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally refuses to give his name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has lawfully arrested the person and requested the information.
    As I understand it with my limited knowledge of the law, one cannot be charged with failure to ID unless they have been lawfully arrested. So, being arrested simply for failure to ID would be unlawful. (At least in Texas, and in my, and many other, opinions. )

    So, knowing that someone who is filming in public has not committed any crimes, and the police arrest only for failure to ID, hypothetically, how long can the police hold a subject who has, in every possible way, refused identified themselves, AND has not committed any crimes?

    And just another note. A quick read of Penal Code Title 8 Chapter 38, suggests a difference between being arrested and detained. I know that some call it the same thing, but others believe it to be two different things.

    Like I previously stated, this is purely hypothetical. It has not happened to me or anyone I know. Simply looking for discussion. Thanks!!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    7,600

    Default Re: Completely Hypothetial

    Most folks here don't do hypotheticals, sorry. I'm pretty sure this particular video (or one like it) has been brought up here before and the conversation never got anywhere.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    7,146

    Default Re: How Long Can the Police Detain Somebody for Failing to Provide ID

    An arrest and a detention are not the same thing. An arrest requires that the officer have probable cause to believe the person being arrested has committed some offense. An officer making an arrest without probable cause opens himself/herself and the department for whom the officer works to a possible lawsuit for false arrest. When an arrest is made without a warrant, the officer is to bring the arrested person before a magistrate without delay, but in no event later than 48 hours after arrest. Texas Code of Criminal Procedure article 14.06. After the 48 hours the arrested person must be released if not brought before a magistrate by then. If the arrested person is brought before a magistrate in the 48 hour period, that magistrate will determine if the arrested person is to be released.

    A detention occurs prior to arrest while the officer is investigating to determine whether probable cause for arrest exists. A detention is to be only as long as is reasonable to conduct that investigation.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Tacoma, WA
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    Default Re: How Long Can the Police Detain Somebody for Failing to Provide ID

    If there were truly no probable cause to justify an arrest for any other offense, then the statute you cited could not be charged. However, without knowing the specifics of a particular incident, neither I nor you can say that there was no cause for arrest prior to this guy’s refusal to ID himself. You are only assuming “that someone who is filming in public has not committed any crimes.” Youtube videos rarely tell the whole story and, in fact, are frequently carefully edited to further and agenda.

    As far as how long can he be held – Well, the police can book him into jail as a “John doe,” the jail will then try to ID him (likely by running his fingerprints). If he still cannot be ID’d, he can be brought before a judge who will demand he ID himself. If he still refuses, the judge can hold him for contempt of court – theoretically for the rest of his life. Alternatively, he could theoretically be tried as “John Doe,” be sentenced, and be made to serve his full sentence (likely incurring further charges during this ordeal). If he is truly dedicated to being a martyr, the judicial system will oblige him.
    Behind the badge is a person. Behind the person is an ego. This is as it should be, person at the center and ego to the back.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    7,600

    Default Re: How Long Can the Police Detain Somebody for Failing to Provide ID

    Quote Quoting PTPD22
    View Post
    However, without knowing the specifics of a particular incident, neither I nor you can say that there was no cause for arrest prior to this guy’s refusal to ID himself. You are only assuming “that someone who is filming in public has not committed any crimes.” Youtube videos rarely tell the whole story and, in fact, are frequently carefully edited to further and agenda.
    This is where the last thread on this topic went to hell. The OP wants us to assume no other facts than what we see in the video and comment based on that. The last OP for this topic threw multiple fits because people refused to comment in a bubble or pointed out that while it may look bad, without all the facts no one can make any real determination.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    16,744

    Default Re: How Long Can the Police Detain Somebody for Failing to Provide ID

    Considering how the OP's other post deteriorated into trolldom I suggest not engaging him/her any further.

    https://www.expertlaw.com/forums/sho...ht=#post719169

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