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  1. #1

    Default Forced to Pay Out of Pocket for Sales Training

    My question involves labor and employment law for the state of: Washington

    I work in a sales role at my company. We are paid a base salary plus commissions on sales.

    My employer now is requiring the sales team to sign a document that enrolls us in a sales training course that costs about $2000 for the year. The cost will be billed monthly to our bank/credits cards, and the form we must sign says we must pay the full $2000 regardless of our attendance to the course or our employment status(if we quit or are fired).

    When I initially got hired, there was no mention of this training or the cost and my contract for employment does not include anything about this training.

    My manager and the ceo has made it clear that this training is mandatory. They have not explicitly said "you will get fired if you don't do this", however they are requiring us to sign these forms and turn them in with only a few days of notice. If they do terminate anyone due to not signing up for this course, they will most likely use another excuse such as not meeting sales quotas, ect.

    Also rumor has it that a cut of the the $2000 actually goes to our company. Our company bills us, takes their cut and then pays the sales training fee with the remainder. Again its a rumor so I'm not 100% sure on this bit, but I thought I'd add it on just in case.

    Any advise on this would be greatly appreciated,

    Thanks

    Edit: Training is during work hours.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Forced to Pay Out of Pocket for Sales Training

    Quote Quoting Raster
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    Legal debate aside ...time to vote with your feet ?
    Yea maybe. Its all a bit sketchy...

    I forgot to mention, the training will be during work hours.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    16,474

    Default Re: Forced to Pay Out of Pocket for Sales Training

    Quote Quoting whatupwhatup
    View Post
    Yea maybe. Its all a bit sketchy...

    I forgot to mention, the training will be during work hours.
    Making you pay for training that happens during your working hours and that you would still be responsible to pay even if you quit or get fired, is seriously taking advantage. I would certainly refuse to sign the document and claim unemployment if I got fired.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Forced to Pay Out of Pocket for Sales Training

    Quote Quoting Raster
    View Post
    I simply don't know about a nice clean legal answer ...I could fully expect that my service techs bought some of the tools needed to do thier job and I could fully expect that my techs who needed professional certifications got or maintained same on thier own dime . And it appears your training time is compensated .
    In that example, it makes more sense. The techs voluntarily choose to pay for the tools and certs. However in my case we were told you need to take this course, its not an option.

    And it's something that is billed through the company's internal billing system. Its the same way we pay for our parking in our parking garage at work.

    Most of the sales team does not want to do it, however they were all told its mandatory and ended up signing the form.

    I should add, I took this course last year and payed for it. They want us to take the level 2 course this year and pay for it the same way. I did not find it too useful, hence the reason I'm hesitant about paying again. Not to mention the seedy way they force you into it.

    I guess there is no clean, cut and dry legal answer to if this is illegal or not?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    16,474

    Default Re: Forced to Pay Out of Pocket for Sales Training

    Quote Quoting Raster
    View Post
    I simply don't know about a nice clean legal answer ...I could fully expect that my service techs bought some of the tools needed to do thier job and I could fully expect that my techs who needed professional certifications got or maintained same on thier own dime . And it appears your training time is compensated .

    Making you pay even if fired or quit is a big red flag...missed that first time !
    Raster, this isn't a tech job that might require certification, its SALES. Read thoroughly or do not answer.

    Quote Quoting whatupwhatup
    View Post
    In that example, it makes more sense. The techs voluntarily choose to pay for the tools and certs. However in my case we were told you need to take this course, its not an option.

    And it's something that is billed through the company's internal billing system. Its the same way we pay for our parking in our parking garage at work.

    Most of the sales team does not want to do it, however they were all told its mandatory and ended up signing the form.

    I should add, I took this course last year and payed for it. They want us to take the level 2 course this year and pay for it the same way. I did not find it too useful, hence the reason I'm hesitant about paying again. Not to mention the seedy way they force you into it.

    I guess there is no clean, cut and dry legal answer to if this is illegal or not?
    They also make you pay THEM, for PARKING? Why are you still there???

  6. #6

    Default Re: Forced to Pay Out of Pocket for Sales Training

    Well the parking fee makes sense. We are located in the heart of downtown and the parking garage is not owned the company and our payment goes to the parking garage company. They actually give us a subsidized rate for parking.

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Forced to Pay Out of Pocket for Sales Training

    The office jobs I had all gave me a parking pass for the garage. What a bunch of cheapos you work for.

    On the other hand, making you pay for training even if you quit or are fired isn't all that unusual. I work for the Federal government and if you request a training course, and leave before a certain amount of time has elapsed, they can send you a bill.

    They do pay for the course up front, though, which is the big difference here.

    I'd start looking around for another job. Did you ask them directly what would happen if you didn't take the class?

  8. #8

    Default Re: Forced to Pay Out of Pocket for Sales Training

    Quote Quoting geek
    View Post
    The office jobs I had all gave me a parking pass for the garage. What a bunch of cheapos you work for.

    On the other hand, making you pay for training even if you quit or are fired isn't all that unusual. I work for the Federal government and if you request a training course, and leave before a certain amount of time has elapsed, they can send you a bill.

    They do pay for the course up front, though, which is the big difference here.

    I'd start looking around for another job. Did you ask them directly what would happen if you didn't take the class?
    Yea we get nickel and dimed a lot. I've already started looking for other jobs, just waiting for the right opportunity. And I have a few sales in the pipeline that I want to close and get paid on before I quit.

    I just don't want to drop $2k on this training beforehand. And being terminated for not taking it will not allow me to close those sales. Little bit of a pickle.

    And I have not asked what happens if I don't take the course. However some coworkers and I have asked if the training was required, and the answer from management was a resounding yes.

    Is that a question I should be asking my manager? I don't want to set off any alarm bells.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    Default Re: Forced to Pay Out of Pocket for Sales Training

    Quote Quoting Raster
    View Post
    good point not to set off any bells
    Helpful as usual! (Not.)

    OP I understand that you wanted to know if it was legal for your employer to make you pay for the course, and if it would be legal for your employer to fire you if you refused. And while I'm sure Raster's wide-ranging responses were entertaining, they never actually addressed what you wanted to know.

    So here are your answers: yes and yes. I know that sucks but it sounds like you already know your employer is pretty sucky. Now they're just giving you an example of how much suckier they can get.

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