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  1. #1
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    Jan 2006
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    Default Re: Third Party in Pa Gifted Me Money Now Their Power of Attorney is Asking for It Ba

    So some stranger you had never met before gifted you a large sum of money? If sued, all you have to do is convince a court that it was a gift. No reasonable person is going to believe some stranger just gave you money for no reason.

    So, what do you have to prove it was a gift?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Third Party in Pa Gifted Me Money Now Their Power of Attorney is Asking for It Ba

    I have nothing. It was a phone conversation. They asked for my bank info and within a few days transferred the money into my account.

    The only reason I agreed to it was the family member assured me that they trusted the person and had know him for some time.
    I think the part I missed in the original post is the power of attorney of the man is the family member that introduced us. I do not know when they became he power of attorney but the way they asked for the money made me think that they are not asking on his behalf. They asked for payments to them directly. Now I'm not even sure the money came from him and I'm not sure how I could even tell who's account it came from since it was a bank transfer.

    Even if I could repay anything I would not want to pay it back to the wrong party.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Third Party in Pa Gifted Me Money Now Their Power of Attorney is Asking for It Ba

    Quote Quoting jk
    View Post
    So some stranger you had never met before gifted you a large sum of
    money? If sued, all you have to do is convince a court that it was a gift. No reasonable person is going to believe some stranger just gave you money for no reason.

    So, what do you have to prove it was a gift?
    The OP does not have the initial burden to prove anything. The person wanting the money back must first provide evidence that the money was some kind of loan rather than a gift since that person bears the burden of proof should the matter go to court. Now, if it was a loan of a “large sum of money” (and we do not know how much is involved here) one would expect that the donor would get a promissory note or other written evidence of the loan detailing the commitment to repay that is signed by the debtor. Even if it was an oral loan, they would need to have discussed when the loan would be repaid, what interest would be charged, etc. The lender would need to have some proof of that verbal contract. The lender’s own testimony would be admissible, but as it is self-serving might not get him very far. Since it is the lender that must prove the loan, the lack of a writing or other evidence may be a real problem for the supposed lender in this instance.

    On the other hand, it is not very common to get signed written confirmation of gifts. So the fact that the OP doesn’t have anything in writing to prove the gift isn’t all that surprising. What else, besides his own testimony, would a jury expect him to have to prove a gift? And the supposed debtor only needs to come up with something on this if the lender offers some kind of evidence first that there was a loan.

    If there is some other basis for the person asking for the money back, like a claim under a fraudulent conveyance statute, the person needs to make clear the basis for requesting the money back.


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Third Party in Pa Gifted Me Money Now Their Power of Attorney is Asking for It Ba

    I understand your points taxing matters but when you view it from a
    common sense approach, a stranger gifting money for no reason is very difficult to believe. Regardless what the op claims, if this were to end up in front of a jury, the situation could be hard to overcome. If it came to believability of the parties it's more likely a jury would not believe it was a loan.

    As to the discussion of repayment; we have the op's obvious self serving statements and nothing else.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Third Party in Pa Gifted Me Money Now Their Power of Attorney is Asking for It Ba

    Quote Quoting jk
    View Post
    I understand your points taxing matters but when you view it from a common sense approach, a stranger gifting money for no reason is very difficult to believe. Regardless what the op claims, if this were to end up in front of a jury, the situation could be hard to overcome. If it came to believability of the parties it's more likely a jury would not believe it was a loan.
    It’s hard to believe that a stranger might make such a gift, but it does sometimes happen. It is hard also to believe that a stranger would make a loan of a large amount of money to someone without getting the loan agreement in writing, but it sometimes happens, too. So both are hard to believe, and I don’t think one is necessarily harder to believe in the abstract than the other. The fact remains that the guy seeking the money back is the one with the burden of proof. He has to come forward with enough to convince a jury or judge that he has a right to get the money back. If his only evidence on that is his own testimony, that’s a problem since it is obviously self-serving. The same problem exists, of course, for the OP if his testimony is all he has. So, absent something other than just the conflicting testimony of the two people involved, it comes down to which of them the jury or judge believes more. Ties go to the defendant since the plaintiff has the burden to prove the case. In my view, were I on the jury, unless there was something really compelling in the story told by the plaintiff, I’d likely say he hasn’t proven his case and go with the defendant. I just have a real hard time believing someone is really going to be stupid enough to make a large loan to a stranger and not get the agreement in writing.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Third Party in Pa Gifted Me Money Now Their Power of Attorney is Asking for It Ba

    OP has chosen a very interesting screen-name given the context of this thread ... I'm jes' sayin'

    (I mean ... really, guys)

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Third Party in Pa Gifted Me Money Now Their Power of Attorney is Asking for It Ba

    My suspicion -- the OP has a friend who is using his power of attorney to use an elderly person's finances as his personal piggy bank. With or without a "wink wink, nudge nudge," he misappropriated funds to help his friend get out of a financial fix. Now he's under investigation for having stolen many thousands of dollars, and he's scrambling to restore the money that he pilfered.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Third Party in Pa Gifted Me Money Now Their Power of Attorney is Asking for It Ba

    Mr k may have hit it on the head


    one additional problem that may be present: the now poa is also the family member that introduced op to the money guy. It could be a 2 against 1 fight.

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