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  1. #1
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    Nov 2016
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    14

    Default Driver's License Placed in USPS Mailbox After Speeding Stop

    My question involves a driver's license issued by the State of: Pennsylvania

    I was stopped by a city police officer on a speeding "entrapment" detail on the Tuesday before Thanksgiving 11/22/2016. Many, many drivers were stopped. I was in a 25 mile an hour zone heading into a 35 mile an hour zone doing 42 miles an hour. The officer neglected to return my driver's license and registration. I heard someone enter my vestibule after midnight the same night. I originally thought it was my renter, but my wife found my driver's license and registration placed in our USPS mailbox the following morning, indicating the officer put my driver's license and registration in the mailbox. USPS law indicates that mailable non-postage paid items placed in a USPS mailbox are punishable by fines of up to $5000 per individual and $10,000 per organization. Does anyone have any information as to how to go about fighting my speeding ticket by going down the road of letting the police department know that they violated USPS law by putting the items in my mailbox? I posted the USPS law in question below:

    3.1.3 Use for Mail
    Except under 3.2.11, Newspaper Receptacle, the receptacles described in 3.1.1 may be used only for matter bearing postage. Other than as permitted by 3.2.10, Delivery of Unstamped Newspapers, or 3.2.11, no part of a mail receptacle may be used to deliver any matter not bearing postage, including items or matter placed upon, supported by, attached to, hung from, or inserted into a mail receptacle. Any mailable matter not bearing postage and found as described above is subject to the same postage as would be paid if it were carried by mail. [D041.1.3]

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    19,292

    Default Re: Driver's License Placed in USPS Mailbox After Speeding Stop

    I'm glad you put "entrapment" in quotation marks. This wasn't entrapment in the least. Catching people who neglect to slow down for a change in posted speed is called "good police work." Would you rather have had the officer mail your documents back to you? Or bang on the door until you came out?

    Yeah, he broke the postal regs. Complain to his department. It won't get you out of the ticket. It's entirely immaterial if the officer subsequently broke the law or not as to your culpability for your offense.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    7,672

    Default Re: Driver's License Placed in USPS Mailbox After Speeding Stop

    Yeah. That ain't gonna work.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    38,789

    Default Re: Driver's License Placed in USPS Mailbox After Speeding Stop

    You are attempting what is often considered blackmail or extortion. Ya, go ahead and make a big deal about what they did with your license.


    Or you could simply appreciate they did drop it off rather than requiring you to drive to the police station, wherever that may be, and pick up your documents

    or even worse; simply say they didn't have them where you would have to go through the bother of obtaining new documents.


    Btw: chances are the USPS wouldn't raise an eyebrow to your situation. While it is improprer to place items in a postal box that has not been processed by the USPS, it is their option whether to seek prosecution of the offender. Given the laws are intended to provide the USPS with a means to deal with mass distributors that would use the post box as a general receptacle for their junk mail (sans postage) the USPS is not likely to get all worked up over your single incident.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
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    14

    Default Re: Driver's License Placed in USPS Mailbox After Speeding Stop

    The detail was specifically designed to bring money into government coffers. It was not based on the "spirit of the law" - to keep people and property safe on the road. It was based on the "letter of the law". That same route is used by the police time and time again specifically to stop people and bring in money. Just like at least 25 other people were stopped that night. When I came back through 2 hours later alone, they had 3 people pulled over. I am simply going to hold them accountable the same way they did me. According to the "letter of the law". The letter of the law designates that non-postage paid items shall not be placed in USPS mailboxes. Or you guys think it's OK to steal and defraud U. S. postal service employees of their money??? You guys think it's OK for a person to violate the privacy of very sensitive information that might be in your mailbox? You simpletons ought to move to a more tyrannical nation if you feel that way. One that shares your thought process.

  6. #6
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    Jul 2010
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    7,672

    Default Re: Driver's License Placed in USPS Mailbox After Speeding Stop

    Ah, you're one of those folks.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
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    14

    Default Re: Driver's License Placed in USPS Mailbox After Speeding Stop

    free9man - no need to act like a self-righteous hypocrite - it's not like we haven't all broken laws and sinned against God - Psalm 94:20-21

    And I wasn't going from a faster zone into a slower. It was the opposite. And if the officer wasn't coherent and cognizant enough to return my license and registration, how could he possibly be coherent and cognizant enough to operate speeding equipment. Right. Some people seem to think that LEO's and the like are above the Law or somehow better then the common man. This type of thought process breeds tyranny.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    17,290

    Default Re: Driver's License Placed in USPS Mailbox After Speeding Stop

    Quote Quoting wisdom_525
    View Post
    free9man - no need to act like a self-righteous hypocrite - it's not like we haven't all broken laws and sinned against God - Psalm 94:20-21
    I agree with free9man that you are one of the lunatic fringe that believes things like "right to travel" or that the income tax is voluntary and you don't have to pay it.

    Nobody "trapped" you.

    You intentionally broke the law by doing 42 in a 25 and got caught.

    Why the police were there is irrelevant.

    Here are your options:

    Go ahead and bash me and continue your trollness.

    Or, just go away.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    38,789

    Default Re: Driver's License Placed in USPS Mailbox After Speeding Stop

    Or you guys think it's OK to steal and defraud U. S. postal service employees of their money???
    so report it. Don't be surprised if absolutely nothing happens. You won't profit from it nor will it affect the outcome of
    your justly deserved speeding ticket.


    You guys think it's OK for a person to violate the privacy of very sensitive information that might be in your mailbox?
    first, nothing was compromised. Second, almost all of the info on those
    documents is available to the general public. That that isn't is easily obtained with a very simple activity
    of reading.

    You simpletons ought to move to a more tyrannical nation if you feel that way. One that shares your thought process.
    or you could move to a country where the residents share your mentality given you are obviously in the minority in this one.


    Quote Quoting wisdom_525
    View Post
    free9man - no need to act like a self-righteous hypocrite - it's not like we haven't all broken laws and sinned against God - Psalm 94:20-21

    .
    Matthew 22:21 Jesus said "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's."

    then follow your biblical heart and give Caesar his money. Pay the ticket






    Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.

    1 Peter 2:13-17


    Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.

    Romans 13:2


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    7,463

    Default Re: Driver's License Placed in USPS Mailbox After Speeding Stop

    Quote Quoting wisdom_525
    View Post
    I posted the USPS law in question below:

    3.1.3 Use for Mail
    Except under 3.2.11, Newspaper Receptacle, the receptacles described in 3.1.1 may be used only for matter bearing postage. Other than as permitted by 3.2.10, Delivery of Unstamped Newspapers, or 3.2.11, no part of a mail receptacle may be used to deliver any matter not bearing postage, including items or matter placed upon, supported by, attached to, hung from, or inserted into a mail receptacle. Any mailable matter not bearing postage and found as described above is subject to the same postage as would be paid if it were carried by mail. [D041.1.3]
    What you quoted from is the Domestic Mail Manual (DMM), which is not law. It instead explains the USPS position on the application of the federal statute which covers this, 18 U.S.C. ß 1725. You may complain about this to the USPS Postal Inspection Service if you wish. That is the law enforcement agency that investigates postal crimes. But I can tell you right now that itís pretty much a certainty that no federal prosecutor will prosecute a cop for a one-time drop of a license and registration in a personís mailbox.

    Quote Quoting wisdom_525
    View Post
    Does anyone have any information as to how to go about fighting my speeding ticket by going down the road of letting the police department know that they violated USPS law by putting the items in my mailbox?
    That argument will go nowhere. The officerís alleged violation of the law regarding placing items in mail receptacles does not in any way absolve you of your alleged violation of the traffic law. Nor was it a violation of any of your rights. If you contest the ticket, all the court wants to hear is evidence that is relevant to the issue of whether or not you were speeding. So if you want to have any shot at beating the ticket, that is where you need to focus your attention. Forget the postal issue ó the judge in your traffic case wonít care about it and you may even manage to annoy the judge by arguing it, which will not work to your advantage.

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