Accused of Wrongly Taking Items from a School After Resigning

[cbg]

If I am a student in a school and I am told to buy school supplies (notebooks, folders, pencils), then those supplies belong to me, and I can take them with me even if I quit going to that school.

But the OP is not a student, she is an employee, and the rules are different. You do not know employment law and you are dead wrong about what the law says in this instance.

[RechaeT]

I've only contacted one parent and she was a friend. The other parents I never contacted, but tech worker did have logic. I printed those pictures from my printer and snapped those with my camera

Where can I find this law? If I am wrong then I will give the pictures back

These weren't home photos of the children. I forgot to mention that these were photos I took of them in the classroom doing daily activities or portfolio photos. All the HOME PHOTOS I let stay in the classroom. They were not mine because they brought those to school to share with the class.

[TechWorker]

Just as an FYI, TechWorker is not a teacher and he has no knowledge whatsoever of employment law (or pretty much any other law, I suspect).

Just so you know, I once defeated a former employer in court. So, yes, I do know about employment law.

Where can I find this law? If I am wrong then I will give the pictures back

If you took the photos with your own camera, then you own the photos. However, if there was some kind of contract between you and the school, which said that any photos you took for the school would belong to the school, then the school would own the photos. So, was there some kind of photo-related contract between you and the school?

We are talking about copyright laws and contract laws.

Also, if you took the photos with your own camera, why didn't you save copies of the photos to your home computer when you took the photos?

[eerelations]

I've only contacted one parent and she was a friend. The other parents I never contacted, but tech worker did have logic. I printed those pictures from my printer and snapped those with my camera

Where can I find this law? If I am wrong then I will give the pictures back

These weren't home photos of the children. I forgot to mention that these were photos I took of them in the classroom doing daily activities or portfolio photos. All the HOME PHOTOS I let stay in the classroom. They were not mine because they brought those to school to share with the class.

There is no law to find. Everything you do, make or create at your employer's request belongs to your employer. If you don't believe me or cbg, then, well, you are choosing to disbelieve two people who have what? 60 or 70 years' training and work experience in employment law between them. Not a smart choice.

And of course we weren't talking about HOME PHOTOS (sic). We never were! Why you're bringing up this irrelevancy, I don't know.

[jk]

Just so you know, I once defeated a former employer in court. So, yes, I do know about employment law.



If you took the photos with your own camera, then you own the photos. However, if there was some kind of contract between you and the school, which said that any photos you took for the school would belong to the school, then the school would own the photos. So, was there some kind of photo-related contract between you and the school?

We are talking about copyright laws and contract laws.

Also, if you took the photos with your own camera, why didn't you save copies of the photos to your home computer when you took the photos?

so "defeating" A former employer in court for some unlentioned reason and you're Perry Frickin' Mason? Your statement in itself is meaningless.

As to ownership of the pictures; we don't know enough to say one way or another for certain and I doubt we will ever be given enough information to make the determination. Unless there was a written contract between the school and the op
where op was hired to take the pictures and the work was agreed
to be a "work for hire", yes, there is a good possibility op may own the pictures. Of course we don't know any discussion between op and school concerning the pictures. Maybe it was agreed at the time they were taken they became property of
the school. Regardless, it's really kind of foolish to argue about op keeping photographs she doesn't even want if returning them would appease the school administrator.

[eerelations]

Just so you know, I once defeated a former employer in court. So, yes, I do know about employment law.



If you took the photos with your own camera, then you own the photos. However, if there was some kind of contract between you and the school, which said that any photos you took for the school would belong to the school, then the school would own the photos. So, was there some kind of photo-related contract between you and the school?

We are talking about copyright laws and contract laws.

Also, if you took the photos with your own camera, why didn't you save copies of the photos to your home computer when you took the photos?

So one successful lawsuit against an employer = 30 years' training and experience in employment law? OK, but I'm still ahead - I have 30 years' experience in this and I won a lawsuit against a former employer!

Finally, no this is so not about copyright and contract laws, we are talking about employment law. You are really out of line feeding OP all this baloney.

so "defeating" A former employer in court for some unlentioned reason and you're Perry Frickin' Mason? Your statement in itself is meaningless.

As to ownership of the pictures; we don't know enough to say one way or another for certain and I doubt we will ever be given enough information to make the determination. Unless there was a written contract between the school and the op
where op was hired to take the pictures and the work was agreed
to be a "work for hire", yes, there is a good possibility op may own the pictures. Of course we don't know any discussion between op and school concerning the pictures. Maybe it was agreed at the time they were taken they became property of
the school. Regardless, it's really kind of foolish to argue about op keeping photographs she doesn't even want if returning them would appease the school administrator.

OP believes the photos would belong to the school if the school reimbursed her (not paid her, but reimbursed her) for whatever it cost her to produce said photos. This isn't a "work for hire" or contractual situation, it would be exactly the same as if the school ordered her pay for the students' art supplies. In employment law, the school would not have to reimburse her for said art supplies, and the art supplies (and anything created with them) would belong to the school.

And yes, OP is really being foolish by not returning the photos to the school. The longer she keeps them, or if she gives them to the kids' parents, the more likely the police will come knocking at her door. (And her former employer will be legally free to tell anyone - including OP's prospective employers - all about this.)

[TechWorker]

There is no law to find. Everything you do, make or create at your employer's request belongs to your employer.

First of all, we need to know whether the OP was an employee or a contractor.

Also, we need to know whether taking these photos was within the OP's normal scope of work. Was the OP told in a job offer (orally or in writing) that she would have to take photos of the kids? If the OP did not know how to use a camera, would the OP have been fired? If taking the photos was not in the OP's normal scope of work, then the OP may own the photos.

Also, we need to see what the contract or the employee agreement says about these photos.

My point is that nothing should be assumed. That's why I said, "Not so fast."

[qwaspolk69]

Not so fast.

If I am a student in a school and I am told to buy school supplies (notebooks, folders, pencils), then those supplies belong to me, and I can take them with me even if I quit going to that school.

Similarly, the OP may have been told to take photos of the kids and to use those photos as her "teacher" supplies.

If the school does not reimburse me for my notebooks, folders, and pencils, then the school does not own my supplies. If the school does not reimburse the OP for the photos, then the school does not own the photos. The teacher that replaces the OP, can then take new photos at that new teacher's expense.




Why would having non-sexual photos of kids be creepy? Ever hear of school yearbooks? Or school newspapers?

Stop. Stop giving advice. A student buying supplies off a list (or more likely the parents) is hugely different than a teacher who voluntarily buys supplies for his or her classroom. Students are required to have certain materials. Teachers who want to buy stuff for their classroom out of their own pocket do so at their own risk of losing that money. Nothing in her story says she bought anything for the classroom. She took pictures that don't belong to her and dropped off the canned good after she got fired.

Nothing you said makes any sense. As usual.

I've only contacted one parent and she was a friend. The other parents I never contacted, but tech worker did have logic. I printed those pictures from my printer and snapped those with my camera

Where can I find this law? If I am wrong then I will give the pictures back

These weren't home photos of the children. I forgot to mention that these were photos I took of them in the classroom doing daily activities or portfolio photos. All the HOME PHOTOS I let stay in the classroom. They were not mine because they brought those to school to share with the class.

Tech Worker has ZERO logic. Ignore his or her advice.

[jk]

First of all, we need to know whether the OP was an employee or a contractor.

Also, we need to know whether taking these photos was within the OP's normal scope of work. Was the OP told in a job offer (orally or in writing) that she would have to take photos of the kids? If the OP did not know how to use a camera, would the OP have been fired? If taking the photos was not in the OP's normal scope of work, then the OP may own the photos.

Also, we need to see what the contract or the employee agreement says about these photos.

My point is that nothing should be assumed. That's why I said, "Not so fast."

If she was a teacher, taking photographs is not going to be considered in her normal line of work for the purposes you are thinking of. As well, unless there was a written contract stating the photos were works for hire, they weren't.

Again, we have no idea of the conversation between op and the administrator and why the op actually took the pictures. There could have been an agreement, possibly only implied, that the pictures would belong to the school. Maybe there wasn't. We aren't ever going to know the facts of the matter but again I say since op already stated she didn't even want the pictures, only a fool would risk problems by retaining the photos, regardless of who paid for them.

[eerelations]

First of all, we need to know whether the OP was an employee or a contractor.

Also, we need to know whether taking these photos was within the OP's normal scope of work. Was the OP told in a job offer (orally or in writing) that she would have to take photos of the kids? If the OP did not know how to use a camera, would the OP have been fired? If taking the photos was not in the OP's normal scope of work, then the OP may own the photos.

Also, we need to see what the contract or the employee agreement says about these photos.

My point is that nothing should be assumed. That's why I said, "Not so fast."

Oh for heaven's sake! OP was an employee! And yes, taking the photos was within her normal scope of work! OP has told us all of this already - I admit some of her posts are quite difficult to understand, but yes, she did manage to convey this to us.

Regarding her contract/employment agreement - unless this/those documents clearly state that the school will reimburse OP for whatever monies she paid out to create the photos, then OP doesn't have a case for reimbursement. And if OP had a document that stated this (if she even has a document at all), she would have told us. Ergo, she does not have such a document.

If she was a teacher, taking photographs is not going to be considered in her normal line of work for the purposes you are thinking of. As well, unless there was a written contract stating the photos were works for hire, they weren't.

According to the OP, all teachers at this school have to take photos of their students. So it would seem that this is part of their normal line of work. It may not be so at other schools, but at this one, it sure seems to be so.