Daughter attacked on school bus

[Mr. Knowitall]

I understand what you are saying, I just do not see anything at all that shows justification of assault or battery in any law anywhere for calling someone anything.

That's yet another separate concept - whether the use of fighting words by one person excuses an act of violence by another. No, obviously not.

[elorei]

I actually found a case, and am saddened by it.

Lonny and Kimberly Rae were both at a high school football game. Kimberly Rae was a photographer for the local newspaper, and was there to take photos for the paper. The referee, Kenneth Manley, a 6'3" black man assaulted Kimberly; (he did not apparently want his photo taken, according to reports). Lommy Rae pushed Manley off of his wife and said ""Tell that nigger to get out here, 'cuz I'm a gonna kick his butt."

Manley backed down, and the altercation ended.

The Rae couple tried to press charges against Manley for assault, but instead, Lonny Rae was charged with "malicious harassment" and assault (which he served jail time for). No charges were filed against Manley.

[aaron]

Hm. The only accounts I am easily finding for that story are on white supremacist websites.

[elorei]

And, Elorei, whil I do not have the cases supporting it immediately available, calling someone a racial epithet CAN be in violation of at least CA state law: ... (3) Any person who uses offensive words in a public place which are inherently likely to provoke an immediate violent reaction.[/I]

It is not a difficult argument to make that calling someone a "N***** " is going to provoke a violent response.

- Carl

Good info, thanks. To me, calling someone a "fat, white bitch" is just as bad as calling someone a "nigger".

I also cannot see how getting beaten on while prone by 3 older kids is anywhere near the same severity as calling someone a name, even if the name is "nigger", one of the most villified epithets of our time.

[elorei]

Hm. The only accounts I am easily finding for that story are on white supremacist websites.

Yeah, they seem to be all over this story, I'll try to find a non-biased source (or at least less biased).

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92639&page=1

[cdwjava]

It was an actual case in Idaho and heard in their court of appeals in 2004.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data2/...p/1041/rae.pdf

Rae was convicted only of Assault and not of the malicious harassment.

There were other issues as well. It is certainly not the case that the bigot sites have portray it to be.

"We conclude that assault is not a lesser included offense of malicious harassment. This determination, along with the jury’s acquittal on the malicious harassment charge, rendered various issues moot. However, we conclude that, under the pleading theory, disturbing the peace in this case is a lesser included offense of malicious harassment. We affirm the denial of the motions to advance costs and for in forma pauperis relief because Rae failed to provide an adequate record for review. Accordingly, Rae’s judgment of conviction for assault is vacated and the case remanded. Rae is not entitled to an award of costs or attorney fees on appeal."

- Carl

[cdwjava]

Good info, thanks. To me, calling someone a "fat, white bitch" is just as bad as calling someone a "nigger".

It might be to some court, as well. But, one does not excuse the other. I have yet to see the former resulting in criminal charges in CA, but I HAVE seen the latter result in charges. And both could result in suspension out here.

I also cannot see how getting beaten on while prone by 3 older kids is anywhere near the same severity as calling someone a name, even if the name is "nigger", one of the most villified epithets of our time.

You have two separate incidents: One in which the two parties called each other names and then hurled books at each other, and another where the girl was assaulted by three subjects. In the first she is arguably an equal participant, and, possibly, could be considered the primary aggressor. In the second, she is a victim.

So, in theory, all could be charged with assorted crimes. In many instances this is precisely what would happen - everyone gets charged. It all depends on the statements from the other uninvolved parties on the bus. Certainly there were more than 5 people on the bus. Those other people will be the witnesses the state will likely rely on to determine who did what to whom.

- Carl

[elorei]

You have two separate incidents: One in which the two parties called each other names and then hurled books at each other, and another where the girl was assaulted by three subjects. In the first she is arguably an equal participant, and, possibly, could be considered the primary aggressor. In the second, she is a victim.

So, in theory, all could be charged with assorted crimes. In many instances this is precisely what would happen - everyone gets charged. It all depends on the statements from the other uninvolved parties on the bus. Certainly there were more than 5 people on the bus. Those other people will be the witnesses the state will likely rely on to determine who did what to whom.

- Carl

I see. I am just peeved I guess that the other parties involved are still riding the bus, making threatening accusations, and not suspended.

But that assumes that everything in the original post was truthful, which is a big assumption.

[aaron]

I think the OP believes it. But there's always a risk that you're not getting the whole story when accepting anyone's second-hand account, even your child's.

[Bamberfish]

She's not a victim. She's the other participant in a war of words which turned into a brawl. She deliberately used words she knew would antagonize these kids - and learned a lesson as to why they are deemed "fighting words". You would have to be incredibly dense to not recognize that certain race-based insults carry a lot more significance than others, even if somebody else supposedly "started it".

B.S. Either all race-based slurs carry significance...or none do. There is no "offense for me...but none for thee". Show me the law that says that racial slurs made by a black person against a white person are less offensive or hateful than those made by a white person against a black person.

I notice you had nothing to say about the antagonistic words the black kids said towards my daughter. Or the racial slurs. Or the threats. Why is that? Are you one of those people that thinks only blacks can be hurt by words? Antagonized? Bullied?

What medical treatment was required after this incident? If the answer is "none", you need to consider whether it is more likely that everybody else is lying (every single person who has any connection with this incident other than your daughter), or whether your daughter is lying.

She was treated for multiple contusions to her head, and a concussion. She was also given muscle relaxants for spasms in her neck and back. That doesn't even cover the counseling she will need to feel safe again....if ever she does.