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  1. #1

    Question Who Has the Right to a Fair Trial

    If the State prosecutes on behalf of crimes suffered by society as a whole, then wouldn't the conviction of an innocent person (or the conviction of a person in violation of due process) likewise be a crime (though un-prosecutable) against society?

    Do fair trial rights belong to everyone?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Who Has the Right to a Fair Trial

    *IF* a prosecutor knowingly and maliciously pursues a criminal prosecution against someone they know to be innocent, that can be a crime. A number of them, in fact. But, a prosecution that results in a conviction that is later overturned for some reason (which may not involve actually innocence) does not necessarily mean that any criminal malfeasance occurred.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Who Has the Right to a Fair Trial

    Quote Quoting LexNonScripta
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    If the State prosecutes on behalf of crimes suffered by society as a whole, then wouldn't the conviction of an innocent person (or the conviction of a person in violation of due process) likewise be a crime (though un-prosecutable) against society?
    No. Crimes are defined by statute, and there is no federal or state statute that makes anything a crime committed by society (which is what I assume you were trying to ask; all crimes are considered a crime against society). A prosecutor who intentionally prosecuted a person that the prosecutor knew to be innocent may have committed a crime — one would have to look at the specific facts involved and the applicable federal and state laws to determine that.

    Quote Quoting LexNonScripta
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    Do fair trial rights belong to everyone?
    Everyone prosecuted for a crime has the same right to a fair trial.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Who Has the Right to a Fair Trial

    Sorry I need to clarify.. I'm not trying to put focus on convictions or whether a prosecutor could be prosecuted.

    I'm trying to ask if what we call the Right to a fair trial (which relates to other rights and procedures) exists solely for benefit of the accused. I'm asking for personal opinions or maybe some longstanding doctrine that limits the purpose of a fair trial to the defendant and no other.

    So for example I believe fair trial rights (impartial jury, proper/familiar jurisdiction, notice of the charges) are for benefit of society as a whole, because if my neighbor can be denied such, I could be denied the same. I am invested in the fair trial rights of my neighbor, even if I am the victim of his acts, because my interest in fair adjudication is inherent in my status as a member of the public. As one who desires to trust her government.
    Another example, the State has a legitimate interest in the defendant's fair trial rights because A) if they didn't, they'd make costly mistakes on a regular basis,
    B) it would foster distrust and impede public cooperation, and C) prosecutors MIGHT be sanctioned, lose office or have unsuccessful careers.

    Society takes part in the role of "victim".. to such a degree that the individual victim
    is recognized only inasmuch as they are (were) a part of society to begin with. (State represents the injured public, not the individual, etc.) Why shouldn't society share the defendant's interest in a fair trial when society is the victim and the financier of the prosecution?
    Hm.. I guess no one else could CLAIM the rights to a fair trial but the defendant. But I'm still curious if interests IN those rights being honored should/could be recognized.

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    Default Re: Who Has the Right to a Fair Trial

    Quote Quoting LexNonScripta
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    Sorry I need to clarify.. I'm not trying to put focus on convictions or whether a prosecutor could be prosecuted.

    I'm trying to ask if what we call the Right to a fair trial (which relates to other rights and procedures) exists solely for benefit of the accused. I'm asking for personal opinions or maybe some longstanding doctrine that limits the purpose of a fair trial to the defendant and no other.

    So for example I believe fair trial rights (impartial jury, proper/familiar jurisdiction, notice of the charges) are for benefit of society as a whole, because if my neighbor can be denied such, I could be denied the same. I am invested in the fair trial rights of my neighbor, even if I am the victim of his acts, because my interest in fair adjudication is inherent in my status as a member of the public. As one who desires to trust her government.
    Another example, the State has a legitimate interest in the defendant's fair trial rights because A) if they didn't, they'd make costly mistakes on a regular basis,
    B) it would foster distrust and impede public cooperation, and C) prosecutors MIGHT be sanctioned, lose office or have unsuccessful careers.

    Society takes part in the role of "victim".. to such a degree that the individual victim
    is recognized only inasmuch as they are (were) a part of society to begin with. (State represents the injured public, not the individual, etc.) Why shouldn't society share the defendant's interest in a fair trial when society is the victim and the financier of the prosecution?
    Hm.. I guess no one else could CLAIM the rights to a fair trial but the defendant. But I'm still curious if interests IN those rights being honored should/could be recognized.
    How would you expect it to be recognized? In what manner? Of course society as a whole has an interest in right being honored...all rights, not just the right to a fair trial, but you are unclear on just what it is that you think should be happening that perhaps is not happening.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Who Has the Right to a Fair Trial

    The trial is the balance of the rights of the accused versus the interests of society and the state of bringing a criminal to justice. No the victim does not generally have the right to anything in the process, though the impact on the victim is often considered (especially in sentencing). Further, the public has an pervasive right that the trial be public so that they can evaluate the fairness of the process as well. Society has the interest of exonerating the innocent as well. Society is without partison motive.

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    Default Re: Who Has the Right to a Fair Trial

    Quote Quoting llworking
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    How would you expect it to be recognized? In what manner? Of course society as a whole has an interest in right being honored...all rights, not just the right to a fair trial, but you are unclear on just what it is that you think should be happening that perhaps is not happening.
    Or, alternately, what is not happening that should be.

    Agree with LL - your question is not clear.

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    Default Re: Who Has the Right to a Fair Trial

    Quote Quoting LexNonScripta
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    So for example I believe fair trial rights (impartial jury, proper/familiar jurisdiction, notice of the charges) are for benefit of society as a whole, because if my neighbor can be denied such, I could be denied the same. I am invested in the fair trial rights of my neighbor, even if I am the victim of his acts, because my interest in fair adjudication is inherent in my status as a member of the public. As one who desires to trust her government.
    Of course we all have an interest in ensuring that every defendant gets a fair trial since, as you point out, every one of us would want that should we be prosecuted of a crime, too. But there isn’t any means for anyone but the defendant to assert any particular defendant’s rights to a fair trial. In other words, there isn’t any way for some member of the public to intervene in any case to vindicate the rights of the defendant. The defendant himself does that. The role of the public is to ensure that, as best a possible, the rules we have are fair and to elect people to office who will ensure that those rules are followed.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Who Has the Right to a Fair Trial

    llworking, I'd like the public's interest in a fair trial to be recognized (defined, limited) because the "defendant's right to a fair trial" is the most frequently cited reason for opposing what have been termed "victim rights."

    FlyingIron notes that the victim generally has no rights in a criminal process but then asserts "the public has an pervasive right that the trial be public."
    Somewhere in those couple of sentences, the victim-witness ceased to be part of the public, or basically lost the right to participate as a member. And that is exactly how it goes in a courtroom– the so-called inalienable rights of victims are revoked without process or acknowledgement, for the purpose of making the victim (witness) a quality evidentiary specimen... i.e., to give the defendant a better shot at a fair trial.

    I am trying to show that victim-witnesses are essentially removed from the public sphere (and many of the rights owed therein), to their detriment, and that typically no process is needed to do so. (This is not true in all states.) If process existed for that, I'd guess it would be called due process, and in a nutshell, that's all victim's rights really are.

    Something that always strikes me about victim rights and the notion that they are not necessary but rather an unnecessary kindness is that when the Constitution was drafted, victims were usually their own prosecutors (or they hired a lawyer) in criminal cases. They didn't write anything special in the Constitution for victims because historically victims were almost always a party to the case and there would have been no need to give them special rights. But the Ninth Am makes me think they left room to add victim's rights to the Constitution: "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

    cbg, to answer your question, I think every state should have constitutional victim rights and/or that we should have them at the federal level.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Who Has the Right to a Fair Trial

    So this is essentially a thread about reviving the issue of prohibiting a victim who is a also a witness to the case from watching the trial prior to giving testimony that you raised here: http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202250?

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