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  1. #1
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    Nov 2016
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    Default Going to Hearing on a Ticket With a Commissioner vs. a Judge

    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: California

    Speeding ticket trial: Commissioner vs Judge recordings

    Hello, I received a speeding ticket back in May CVC 22350. I did a Trial by written Declaration to delay the process, I copy and pasted something from Case Dismissed with Special Ca Strategies. This gave a good 30 days in additional to the extension. Of course the cut and paste effort netted me a Guilty.

    On October 7, I went into the Fremont CA court house and the clerk gave me Nov 21,2016 trial date @2pm. This is exactly 45 days from Oct 7th.

    1. On the date of the trial, I know the bailiff will have us sign a sheet that allows a commissioner to hear our case. My concern is that with a commissioner the trial won’t be transcribed. Just in case I want to appeal and I can reference the dialogue. If it’s with a real judge, there will be a transcription.
    If I don’t sign the sheet, and a judge is not available that day and they have to reschedule, does this hurt my speedy 45 day trial rights…since I’m the one who wants a judge?

    For example, let’s say I do get a judge 10 days later, but the officer doesn’t show up. Usually from what I’ve read the judge will likely dismiss the case. But since I already delayed my case on my own to get it in front of a judge, will the judge postpone the case again till the officer can make it.
    If I go the commissioner route and the officer doesn’t show up, I can argue that this trial is exactly 45 days from when it was scheduled(Oct 7th).

    2. If the judge availability is too far out, can I request any another court house?

    3. Before I get sworn in, is their way to find out if the officer showed up?

    4. Will the judge be annoyed that I did this?

    5. Since the officer is a public servant, can I ask the Fremont police for his schedule to see when he’s on vacation or somewhere else? 11/21 is week of thanks giving, want to know if he will take a holiday.

    This is a little off topic,

    But what will the police officer bring to the trial. Besides there notes; DO they bring calibration records, engineering surveys, etc
    Thank you.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
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    Default Re: Speeding Ticket Trial: Commissioner vs Judge Recordings

    Quote Quoting weedkill3
    View Post
    1. On the date of the trial, I know the bailiff will have us sign a sheet that allows a commissioner to hear our case. My concern is that with a commissioner the trial wonít be transcribed. Just in case I want to appeal and I can reference the dialogue. If itís with a real judge, there will be a transcription.
    While this might vary by county, where I am familiar, it makes no difference whether you have a commissioner or a judge - traffic court proceedings are not generally recorded. You can always call the Clerk's office in your county and ask.

    If I donít sign the sheet, and a judge is not available that day and they have to reschedule, does this hurt my speedy 45 day trial rightsÖsince Iím the one who wants a judge?
    That's your option, but, you would be the one requesting the continuance and thus waiving time. How MUCH time, I don't know. Others that post here probably do.

    For example, letís say I do get a judge 10 days later, but the officer doesnít show up. Usually from what Iíve read the judge will likely dismiss the case. But since I already delayed my case on my own to get it in front of a judge, will the judge postpone the case again till the officer can make it.
    That's a gamble you may choose. If you don't see the officer and then hope for a dismissal, but he appears in the back of the room when you did not expect it,. then your gamble might not pay off.

    2. If the judge availability is too far out, can I request any another court house?
    A change of venue? That can be done at the time of the citation, but only to the county seat. Otherwise, you CAN request it, but these requests are generally denied.

    3. Before I get sworn in, is their way to find out if the officer showed up?
    You can look around the room. In most courts, they will call the roll before the proceedings begin and then you'll know.

    4. Will the judge be annoyed that I did this?
    Traffic court commissioners and judges are used to people playing games. Yours is not much of a game, so I doubt it will be all that annoying.

    5. Since the officer is a public servant, can I ask the Fremont police for his schedule to see when heís on vacation or somewhere else? 11/21 is week of thanks giving, want to know if he will take a holiday.
    They are NOT going to provide you his work or vacation schedule! Since law enforcement is a 24/7/365 sort of thing, they work Holidays all the time. if he normally works that day of the week, chances are good he'll be working. If not, then he'll get paid time and a half for a minimum of 3 or 4 hours to be there.

    But what will the police officer bring to the trial. Besides there notes; DO they bring calibration records, engineering surveys, etc
    Thank you.
    If he needs them, sure. If not, no. The court may have surveys on file there, and the officer may not need calibration records at all - depending on what he used to estimate or measure your speed.
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
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    26

    Default Re: Speeding Ticket Trial: Commissioner vs Judge Recordings

    Thanks for the reply.

    any others out there have any other info?

    Oh the officer used LIDAR.

    cdwjava, can you provide some questions that would trip the officer up?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    California
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    Default Re: Speeding Ticket Trial: Commissioner vs Judge Recordings

    Th officer will likely testify based upon a memorized template indicating his location, the distance to the OP, maybe even the angle of the "shot", as well as the presence of other traffic.

    Defenses to lidar tend to include issues such as angle of deflection, weather, and the presence of intervening obstacles - all with varying degrees of success. As with radar, a valid survey must exist (with a few exceptions) to address a cite for 22350.

    If the officer is experienced, chances of causing the officer to slip up could be slim.
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
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    26

    Default Re: Speeding Ticket Trial: Commissioner vs Judge Recordings

    Doing some research. it looks like one of the most common LIDAR error is the sweep err, which can add 9-18 mph to your ticket. Are officers required to keep or produce a tracking history. Officer =are not robots and cannot hold the laser rock hard steady, the laser must sweep. Would it make sense for me to ask the officer to produce the tracking history?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
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    Default Re: Speeding Ticket Trial: Commissioner vs Judge Recordings

    My comments here reflect my experience as a lidar operator in a state other than California.


    Quote Quoting weedkill3
    View Post
    the laser must sweep.
    Not at all - it depends upon the angle.

    Also, modern (going back 15 years) lidar sets take this into account and will simply display an error in cases such as you describe.

    Lidar is one of the most reliable methods of measuring speed. Certainly much more accurate (in terms of picking out specific vehicles) than radar.

    Quote Quoting weedkill3
    View Post
    Would it make sense for me to ask the officer to produce the tracking history?

    You're assuming that tracking history is a form that gets filled out with notes/information. That is not the case.

  7. #7
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    Nov 2016
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    Default Re: Speeding Ticket Trial: Commissioner vs Judge Recordings

    WHat is proper etiqutte,

    So the officer takes the stand, and judge begins asking him question, he then starts reading from the notes,...can I object immediately and state its heresy and the officer has no independent recollection of events, or do I need to wait until he is done and ask the judge to stricken his testimony from the record.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
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    1,126

    Default Re: Speeding Ticket Trial: Commissioner vs Judge Recordings

    Quote Quoting weedkill3
    View Post
    WHat is proper etiqutte
    Huh? For what?

    Quote Quoting weedkill3
    View Post
    So the officer takes the stand, and judge begins asking him question, he then starts reading from the notes,...can I object immediately and state its heresy and the officer has no independent recollection of events, or do I need to wait until he is done and ask the judge to stricken his testimony from the record.
    Heresy?

    The officer is permitted to use his notes - no one reasonably expects a police officer who might write hundreds of tickets a month to remember every detail of every one.

    Based upon your statements so far I'd say you don't stand a chance of doing anything except getting the judge annoyed with you.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
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    20,594

    Default Re: Speeding Ticket Trial: Commissioner vs Judge Recordings

    Quote Quoting weedkill3
    View Post
    WHat is proper etiqutte,

    So the officer takes the stand, and judge begins asking him question, he then starts reading from the notes,...can I object immediately and state its heresy and the officer has no independent recollection of events, or do I need to wait until he is done and ask the judge to stricken his testimony from the record.
    If the officer starts reading from his notes and ONLY his notes (i.e. not from any personal recollection), you CAN object ... but, the officer will likely point out to the court that he is referring to his notes to refresh his memory. It is doubtful that his notes are going to be a verbatim recital of what happened, but the notes will serve as a recollection of day and time, location, direction of travel, etc.

    An officer is generally going to be permitted to refer to his notes. YOU will be using notes, too, correct?
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    26

    Default Re: Speeding Ticket Trial: Commissioner vs Judge Recordings

    I found this:

    https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclope...apter11-1.html

    don't know how much weight it carries.

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