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  1. #1

    Default Driver's License Suspension and the Right to Travel

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
    View Post
    You can TRAVEL as a passenger in a motor vehicle - or even a vehicle - all you want. However, for it to operate on a public roadway it needs to be registered and the operator/driver needs to be licensed.

    And try VC 12500 et seq. starting with ...

    12500. (a) A person may not drive a motor vehicle upon a highway,
    unless the person then holds a valid driver's license issued under
    this code, except those persons who are expressly exempted under this
    code.
    Are you unaware of the profound distinction made by courts all over the land that there's a very specific difference between a 'motor vehicle' and an 'automobile'.
    No, it's not splitting hairs or semantics...words and definitions of words absolutely matter in Law! Without a doubt they matter.


    18 USC 31:
    (6)“Motor vehicle” means every description or other contrivance propelled or drawn by mechanical power AND used for commercial purposes on the highways in the transportation of passengers, or passengers and property.

    There is a clear distinction between automobile and motor vehicle. An automobile has been defined as:
    "The word `automobile' connotes a pleasure vehicle designed for the transportation of persons on highways." American Mutual Liability Ins. Co., vs. Chaput, 60 A.2d 118, 120; 95 NH 200

    While the distinction is made clear between the two as the courts have stated:

    "A motor vehicle or automobile for hire is a motor vehicle, other than an automobile stage, used for the transportation of persons for which remuneration is received."
    International Motor Transit Co. vs. Seattle, 251 P. 120

    "The term `motor vehicle' is different and broader than the word `automobile."
    City of Dayton vs. DeBrosse, 23 NE.2d 647, 650; 62 Ohio App. 232

    “The word ‘automobile’ connotes a pleasure vehicle designed for the transportation of persons on highways.” Liebrecht v. Crandall, 126 N.W. 69, 110 Minn. 454, 456

    Why does all of the distinctions made by courts all over the land elude the knowledge possessed by cops?
    We have a Right to travel (it's called LIBERTY...the freedom of locomotion)...and that absolutely means unregulated/taxed. A right to travel FREELY UPON the land...but all you cops have been so brainwashed and oh yeah...you get the gun, so things like Rights are ignored by you, court rulings that essentially interpret law and rule in ways that trump many of the statutes/codes cops operate under...yet cops remain blissfully ignorant of this knowledge. They see one code in their book and have absolutely no idea, most of the time, if not all of the time, if that code or statute is null/void on it face!!


    “No state shall convert a liberty into a license, and charge a fee therefore.”
    Murdock v. Pennsylvania, 319 U.S. 105

    “The object of a license is to confer a right or power, which does not exist without it.”
    Blatz Brewing Co. v. Collins, 160 P.2d 37, 39; 69 Cal. A. 2d 639.

    "A license is a privilege granted by the state" and "cannot possibly exist with reference to something which is a Right...to ride and drive over the streets".
    City of Chicago v Cullens, et al, 51 N.E. 907, 910, etc. (1906)

    “Statutes that violate the plain and obvious principles of common Right and common reason are null and void.”
    Bennett v. Boggs, 1 Baldw 60

    “If [state] officials construe a vague statute unconstitutionally, the citizen may take them at their word, and act on the assumption that the statute is void.”
    Wingfield v. Fielder 2d Ca. 3d 213 (1972).

    “Persons faced with an unconstitutional licensing law which purports to require a license as a prerequisite to exercise of right… may ignore the law and engage with impunity in exercise of such right.”
    People v. Battle

    “If the State converts a right (liberty) into a privilege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right (liberty) with impunity.”
    Shuttlesworth v. City of Birmingham, Alabama, 373 U.S. 262 (1963)

    "Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule making or legislation which would abrogate them."
    Miranda vs. Arizona, 384 US 436, 491


    Do you know what a Right is? That a Right can not/does not exist with "privileges" given by government.
    I can't believe I even have to say this sh*t to cops. You guys get the gun and you do grotesquely and flagrantly ignore soooo much.
    The language of the law is pretty clear, but when it refers to "Rights", cops get phuggen stupid and seem to forget what they are.
    Funny how the very definitions of the words used to define law are clear too, but...the issue is YOU HAVE ALL FORGOTTEN WHAT OUR RIGHTS ARE and willfully and arrogantly stomp on them.

    Look at the definitions. Argue what? There's nothing to argue. What this language proves to me is that cops do NOT give a sh*t one iota about ANYBODY's rights...they're concerned with power, control, domination, imposing fear into their victims (a supposedly free population of Americans) and doing it all via fear imposed by the barrel of a gun, in a free country noless. You guys are tyrants that are conditioned into believing the shat you tell yourselves for making what you do in your minds ok. You guys are predators. You're tyrants and you don't even see it.


    Florida § 633.021 Definitions:
    (14) "Highway" means every way or place of whatever nature within the state open to the use of the public, as a matter of right, for purposes of vehicular traffic and includes public streets, alleys, roadways, or driveways upon grounds of colleges, universities, and institutions and other ways open to travel by the public...

    Florida § 633.102 Definitions:
    (16) “Highway” means every way or place of whatever nature within the state open to the use of the public, as a matter of right, for purposes of vehicular traffic and includes public streets, alleys, roadways, or driveways upon grounds of colleges, universities...

    Arizona - § 42 5062(A): 5
    "Public highway" means any way or place in this state that is constructed or maintained with public monies and that is open to use by the public, as a matter of right, for the purpose of vehicular travel, including a highway under construction.

    Colorado - § 33-14-101. Definitions:
    (12) "Street", "road", "freeway", or "highway" means the entire right-of-way between boundary lines of any of such public ways when any part thereof is open to the use of the public, as a matter of right, for the purpose of motor vehicle travel.

    Colorado - § 155-3. Definitions:
    "Public Right-of-Way" All streets, roadways, sidewalks, alleys and all other areas reserved for present or future use by the public, as a matter of right, for the purpose of vehicular or pedestrian travel, utility installation and for snow storage by the Town of Frisco.
    [Amended 5-2-1989 by Ord. No. 89-16]

    Delaware - Title 21, Part I, Ch.1 General Provisions, § 101. Words and phrases.
    (22) "Highway" means the entire width between boundary lines of every way or place of whatever nature open to the use of the public, as a matter of right, for purposes of vehicular travel...

    Iowa § 321G.1 Definitions:
    20. "Street" or "highway" means the entire width between property lines of every way or place of whatever nature when any part thereof is open to the use of the public, as a matter of right, for purposes of vehicular travel, except in public areas in which the boundary shall be thirty-three feet each side of ...

    Idaho - § 49.301
    (13) Street or Highway Street or Highway means the entire width between property lines of every way or place of whatever nature when any part thereof is open to the use of the public, as a matter of right, for purposes of vehicular traffic.

    Idaho - § 63-2401. Definitions
    (12) "Highways" means every place of whatever nature open to the use of the public, as a matter of right, for the purpose of vehicular travel which is maintained by the state of Idaho...

    New Mexico - State v. Roddy Brennan, 1998-NMCA-176, filed 10/22/98 NM Ct. of Appeals:
    "Highways as defined in the Motor Vehicle Code include "every way or place generally open to the use of the public, as a matter of right, for the purpose of vehicular travel."
    Minnesota § 169.01 Definitions.
    "Street or highway" means the entire width between boundary lines of any way or place when any part thereof is open to the use of the public, as a matter of right, for the purposes of vehicular traffic.

    New York state - Article 21 General Provisions: § 21.05 Definitions.
    9. "Highway" shall mean the entire width between the boundary lines of any way or place thereof is open to the use of the public, as a matter of right, for the purpose of vehicular traffic.

    North Carolina § 20-4.01(13)
    "Highway" is defined as "the entire width between property or right-of-way lines of every way or place of whatever nature, when any part thereof is open to the use of the public, as a matter of right, for the purposes of vehicular traffic. The terms "highway" and "street" and their cognates are synonymous.

    Oregon Vehicle Code § 801.305
    "Highway" means every public way, road, street, thoroughfare and place, including bridges, viaducts and other structures within the boundaries of this state, open, used or intended for use of the general public, for vehicles or vehicular traffic, as a matter of right.

    Pennsylvania § 75 Pa.C.S.A. §3101 and 75 Pa.C.S.A. §102.
    "Trafficway. The entire width between property lines or other boundary lines of every way or place which is open to the public, for purposes of vehicular travel, as a matter of right or custom."

    Texas § 114.001. Definitions:
    (5) "Public highway" means a way or place of whatever nature open to the use of the public, as a matter of right, for the purpose of vehicular travel, even if the way or place is temporarily closed for the purpose of construction, maintenance, or repair.

    South Dakota § 32-14-1. Terms used in chapters 32-14 to 32-19 inclusive mean:
    (11) "Highway" the entire width between the boundary lines of every way publicly maintained when any part thereof is open to the use of the public, as a matter of right, for purposes of vehicular travel.

    Utah - § 23-13-2 & R657-5-2 & § 41-6a-102. Under Definitions: (20)
    (6) "Highway" means the entire width between property lines of every way or place of any nature when any part of it is open to the use of the public, as a matter of right, for vehicular travel.

    Utah - § 16-2-1. Definitions:
    (1) "Roadway" or "Street" means the entire width between property lines of every way or place of any nature when any part of it is open to the use of the public, as a matter of right, for vehicular traffic.

    Wisconsin 340.01 (22) "Highway"
    Means all public ways and thoroughfares and bridges on the same. It includes the entire width between the boundary lines of every way open to the use of the public as a matter of right for the purposes of vehicular travel.

    Nebraska Revised Statutes: Section 39-741, 1943
    " '(5) The term "highway" includes every way or place of whatever nature open to the use of the public, as a matter of right, for the purposes of vehicular travel, but shall not be deemed to include a roadway or driveway upon grounds owned by private persons, colleges, universities or other institutions.'"

    Municipal Code in other states:

    Santa Barbara County, CA § 9.04.030 Definitions.
    F. "Street." A way or place, of whatever nature, open to the use of the public, as a matter of right, for the purpose of vehicular travel or in the case of a sidewalk thereof for pedestrian travel.

    City of Glendale, CA - § 9.04.030 Definitions.
    "Street" means a way or place, of whatever nature, open to the use of the public, as a matter of right, for vehicular travel or, in the case of a sidewalk, for pedestrian travel.

    Park County, CO - § 4-200B Definitions.
    Right-of-way: All streets, roadways, sidewalks, alleys, and all other areas reserved for present or future use by the general public, as a matter of right, for the purpose of vehicular or pedestrian travel...

    Brighton, CO - § IX, Subdivision Regulations, § VI Definitions. B.
    Right-of-Way, Public. All streets, roadways, bikeways, sidewalks, alleys, and all other areas reserved for present or future use by the public, as matter of right, for the purpose of vehicular or pedestrian travel.

    Blanca, CO - Article I. In General, § 1-1. Definitions.
    Right-of-way, public shall mean all street, roadways, sidewalks, alleys and all other areas reserved for present or future use by the public, as a matter of right, for the purpose of vehicular or pedestrian travel.

    Dillon, CO - § 8-3-20. Definitions
    Street, road or highway means the entire right-of-way between boundary lines of any such public ways when any part thereof is open to the use of the public, as a matter of right, for the purposes of motor vehicle travel.

    Pueblo, CO - § 17.04.040 Definitions
    "Right-of-Way, Public" means all streets, roadways, sidewalks, alleys, and all other areas reserved for present or future use by the public, as a matter or right, for the purpose of vehicular or pedestrian travel.

    Boise, ID - § 10-01-01 Definitions of words and phrases:
    Street or Highway: The words "Street or Highway" shall be used interchangeably and shall mean the entire width between the boundary lines of every way or place open to the public, as a matter of right, for public vehicular travel but not to include alleys.

    Haley, ID - § 9.08.010 Definitions.
    A. "Streets" means a way or place, of whatsoever nature, open to the use of the public, as a matter of right, for purposes of vehicular travel.

    Haley, ID - § 10.24.020 Definitions.
    "Highway" means any way or place of whatever nature open to the use of the public, as a matter of right, for the purposes of vehicular travel or parking of motor vehicles which is maintained by the state or some taxing subdivision or unit thereof...

    Topeka, KS - Ordinance 19989 - Article 1 - Definitions:
    Highway. Every way or place of whatever nature open to the use of the public as a matter of right for the purpose of vehicular travel.

    Ramsey, MN - § 6.04.03 Definitions:
    "Street or Highway" shall mean the entire width between boundary lines of any way or place when any part thereof is open to the use of the public, as a matter of right, for the purpose of vehicular traffic (includes the right-of-way or boulevard).

    Rochester, MN - City Ordinances - Chapter 134 - 134.01 Definitions: Subd. 23.
    "Street or Alley" means the entire width between boundary lines of any way or place when any part thereof is open to the use of the public, as a matter of right, for purposes of vehicular traffic. The term "street" specifically includes highway.

    Diamondhead, MS - Ordinance No.2013-039 Definitions:
    (39) "Street" means a way or place, of whatsoever nature, open to the use of the public as a matter of right for the purposes of vehicular travel.

    Minden, NE - Article IV - Sec 50-53 Definitions:
    "Street" is a way or place of whatsoever nature open to the use of the public as a matter of right for purposes of vehicular travel...

    Clark County, NV - § 5.02.010 Definitions:
    (39) "Street" means the surface, the air space above the surface and the area below the surface of the full width of the right-of-way, including sidewalks and thoroughfares, places or ways of any kind used by the public or open to the public, as a matter of right, for the purposes of vehicular traffic or vehicular and pedestrian traffic.

    Allentown, PA - Codified Ordinances - Part 5- Title 3 - Article 527.01 Definitions:
    1. "Street"means every way or place of whenever nature, within the City, open to the use of the public as a matter of right, for purpose of vehicular travel

    West Earl Township, PA - Code of Township of West Earl - Part II
    General Legislation - Chapter 78 § 78-3. Definitions:
    B. Street - A way of place, of whatever nature, open to the use of the public as a matter of right for purposes of vehicular travel...

    Lindon, UT - § 9.22.020 Definitions:
    As a type of public place, a street is a way or place, of whatever nature, open to the use of the public, as a matter of right, for purposes of vehicular travel or in the case of a sidewalk thereof for pedestrian travel.

    Revised Code of Washington 36.75.010 - Definitions
    (11) "Highway," every way, lane, road, street, boulevard, and every way or place in the state of Washington, open as a matter of right to public vehicular travel both inside and outside the limits of incorporated cities and towns;


    AS A MATTER OF RIGHT!!!!

  2. #2
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    Default Re: California VC 15210 (P)(8)

    We've already been over this dude. Your copying and pasting isn't going to change the fact that courts across the country have ruled that states have the right to require licenses. This is not a magic bullet or A-HA! thing, it is sovereign citizen/freemen crap that does not work because it is wrong.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: California VC 15210 (P)(8)

    Here's what you do ... surrender your driver's license to whatever state you have it through. Then, go to the state of your choice without a valid driver's license, and start driving all over the place doing stupid stuff until you get stopped. When you get stopped and cited, muster your pennies and start this big Constitutional fight (even though it has been tried and lost, repeatedly) over the issue.

    Be sure to post the news links of your progress here. We'd enjoy monitoring your progress.

    Have fun.

    As a note, I saw it when you posted this tripe earlier. As was pointed out, a bunch of isolated definitions absent context and without court decisions to back up YOUR interpretation of them is meaningless. They mean nothing. If you are a true believer, then gather the funds together and an attorney, and engage in activity likely to get you stopped and cited.

  4. #4

    Default Re: California VC 15210 (P)(8)

    You just refuse to accept any logic that defies what you were conditioned to believe all your life, all your career.
    They're not arbitrary definitions of cases, they're applicable.....just because you ad-hominim attack them and call them bullshit, baseless or frivolous, like every other 'slave of the state' would parot, doesn't make them such. But I'll bet you 100 bucks you've never done a minutes worth of real research or education of yourself into this topic beyond 'statutes/codes' and bla bla bla. You show yourself for what you are.
    It's like people with your genetic code are incapable of seeing past anything other than the box of knowledge that was handed to you, that you have lived in all your life.
    You sir have FORGOTTEN or do not give a SH*T about our Rights and Freedoms as Americans. You're happy with the status quo...hey, you were a pig, so no wonder you're happy with it.
    It's like you guys literally are a different, far less intelligent species of the homosapien-sapien. Your mind is locked and confined into a box that it was handed years ago...and you can't acknowledge that as a cop, you were a tyrant to your free society and that you bought into bullsh*t....because when a man with an ability to critically think and is not an order following mindless biological drone looks at the evidence, he begins to realize how phuggen corrupt this whole system is and people like you enforce this un Free bull donkey by the barrel of a gun. So noble. So free. So freakin IGNORANT!!!

  5. #5
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    Default Re: California VC 15210 (P)(8)

    Have you forgotten where a real attorney destroyed your argument in your original thread on this garbage by quoting caselaw from real courts with real judges who made real rulings that the crap you are throwing around is just that, crap?

    Those "statutes/codes" are what define the laws of the land.

    I'll say it again: United States courts (those are the places where people in black robes determine what terms and laws mean) have ruled repeatedly (that means more than once) that state governments (the folks who run the states and make the laws) have the right to require a license (and many other things like insurance and registration) to drive/operate/whatever a motor vehicle/car/automobile/motorcycle/Flintstones car on the roads.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: California VC 15210 (P)(8)

    Quote Quoting RightsAreRights
    View Post
    You just refuse to accept any logic that defies what you were conditioned to believe all your life, all your career.
    They're not arbitrary definitions of cases, they're applicable.....just because you ad-hominim attack them and call them bullshit, baseless or frivolous, like every other 'slave of the state' would parot, doesn't make them such. But I'll bet you 100 bucks you've never done a minutes worth of real research or education of yourself into this topic beyond 'statutes/codes' and bla bla bla. You show yourself for what you are.
    It's like people with your genetic code are incapable of seeing past anything other than the box of knowledge that was handed to you, that you have lived in all your life.
    You sir have FORGOTTEN or do not give a SH*T about our Rights and Freedoms as Americans. You're happy with the status quo...hey, you were a pig, so no wonder you're happy with it.
    It's like you guys literally are a different, far less intelligent species of the homosapien-sapien. Your mind is locked and confined into a box that it was handed years ago...and you can't acknowledge that as a cop, you were a tyrant to your free society and that you bought into bullsh*t....because when a man with an ability to critically think and is not an order following mindless biological drone looks at the evidence, he begins to realize how phuggen corrupt this whole system is and people like you enforce this un Free bull donkey by the barrel of a gun. So noble. So free. So freakin IGNORANT!!!
    Then prove us all wrong. Surrender your license and vehicle registration and start cruising the country. When you get stopped and probably arrested, throw all of your "this is the law" crap at your defense and hope something sticks. Until then, you are nothing more than a blowhard that thinks he can do what dozens of people, including trained attorneys, have failed to do.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: California VC 15210 (P)(8)

    Quote Quoting RightsAreRights
    View Post
    You just refuse to accept any logic that defies what you were conditioned to believe all your life, all your career.
    No, I just refuse to accept failed arguments that the courts have refuted even before I began my career.

    They're not arbitrary definitions of cases, they're applicable.....just because you ad-hominim attack them and call them bullshit, baseless or frivolous, like every other 'slave of the state' would parot, doesn't make them such.
    Just as your copying and pasting a batch of irrelevant code sections absent any context or case law to back them up does not suddenly render them applicable to your argument! Every state has laws mandating driver's license to operate a motor vehicle on a public roadway. You have your work cut out for you if you want to argue that all 50 states are wrong and that the defense bar has not discovered this issue, and that all the courts have been wrong for ... well, forever!

    But I'll bet you 100 bucks you've never done a minutes worth of real research or education of yourself into this topic beyond 'statutes/codes' and bla bla bla. You show yourself for what you are.
    Why would I do research on something that is settled case law? Why? I have done a great deal of research in other areas, but, I have no interest in beating my head against the wall for no reason. But, then, I HAVE driver's license and my vehicles are registered. I don't have the money to make a legal fight of it even if I believed as you did. Which, I do not.

    It's like people with your genetic code are incapable of seeing past anything other than the box of knowledge that was handed to you, that you have lived in all your life.
    People of my "genetic code"? What the heck is that! LOL!

    You sir have FORGOTTEN or do not give a SH*T about our Rights and Freedoms as Americans. You're happy with the status quo...hey, you were a pig, so no wonder you're happy with it.
    Ah, so you were one of them angry ignoramuses. People who disagree with you are idiots, and the cops are "pigs" or worse. Got it. You do not know anything about my positions on rights or freedoms, so you really have no idea what you are saying about me.

    It's like you guys literally are a different, far less intelligent species of the homosapien-sapien. Your mind is locked and confined into a box that it was handed years ago...and you can't acknowledge that as a cop, you were a tyrant to your free society and that you bought into bullsh*t....because when a man with an ability to critically think and is not an order following mindless biological drone looks at the evidence, he begins to realize how phuggen corrupt this whole system is and people like you enforce this un Free bull donkey by the barrel of a gun. So noble. So free. So freakin IGNORANT!!!
    LOL! This is so funny ... and scary. But, hey, as long as you leave your protest to rants on-line and not in shooting at cops and revenuers and the like, you're merely another loon.

  8. #8

    Default Re: California VC 15210 (P)(8)

    RE:It is true that the terms motor vehicle and automobile are not exactly the same. The former is broader than the latter, as one of your own citations indicates. And since states require licenses to operate motor vehicles, which includes automobiles, that distinction gets you nowhere in your argument.
    18 USC 31:
    (6)“Motor vehicle” means every description or other contrivance propelled or drawn by mechanical power AND used for commercial purposes on the highways in the transportation of passengers, or passengers and property.

    AND AND AND AND. PLEASE NOTE THE WORD "AND" IN THE PREVIOUS DEFINITION. I DON'T KNOW ABOUT BROADER DEFINITION OR NOT BUT THIS SUMS IT UP. WE OPERATE CARS THAT ARE NOT MOTOR VEHICLES !!! YOU NEED A LICENSE FOR DRIVING A MOTOR VEHICLE WHICH WHICH BY DEFINITION IS "AND used for commercial purposes".

  9. #9
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    Default Re: California VC 15210 (P)(8)

    Oh joy! Another one. Or maybe the same one coming back under a new name. Let the stupidity recommence!

  10. #10
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    Default Re: California VC 15210 (P)(8)

    Quote Quoting MIKE ANDERSON
    View Post
    RE:It is true that the terms motor vehicle and automobile are not exactly the same. The former is broader than the latter, as one of your own citations indicates. And since states require licenses to operate motor vehicles, which includes automobiles, that distinction gets you nowhere in your argument.
    18 USC 31:
    (6)“Motor vehicle” means every description or other contrivance propelled or drawn by mechanical power AND used for commercial purposes on the highways in the transportation of passengers, or passengers and property.

    AND AND AND AND. PLEASE NOTE THE WORD "AND" IN THE PREVIOUS DEFINITION. I DON'T KNOW ABOUT BROADER DEFINITION OR NOT BUT THIS SUMS IT UP. WE OPERATE CARS THAT ARE NOT MOTOR VEHICLES !!! YOU NEED A LICENSE FOR DRIVING A MOTOR VEHICLE WHICH WHICH BY DEFINITION IS "AND used for commercial purposes".
    Evidently you did not read this thread carefully before posting this. If you had, you would have seen that I already addressed this. The definition of motor vehicle in 18 U.S.C. § 31(6) only applies for the purposes of applying federal criminal law relating to commercial vehicle violations. The statute itself tells you the definition is limited because it starts off “In this chapter, the following definitions apply.” This statute has nothing at all to do with state licensing requirements nor does it override the state law definitions that apply to their licensing laws. This is one of the common mistakes that people advocating that licenses are not needed often make: they take snippets from statutes and cases out of context to support their argument. That’s poor legal research and argument, and will result in a losing in court. Citing a definition in a federal statute that has absolutely nothing to do with licensing laws only reveals how little you really know of the law in this area.

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