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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
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    4

    Default Is a Copy of a Bill Verification of a Debt

    My question involves collection proceedings in the State of: Arizona

    We received a letter from a debt collector trying to collect a debt that I totally disagree with, basically a cancellation fee that we were never made aware of at the time of starting services. We sent the collection agency a very detailed debt verification letter, asking among other things 'proof that I owe what you say I owe' as well as 'proof you are licensed to collect in my state'. A week or so later we received a response and all it was, was a copy of the original creditor's billing statements to us, which has their supposed cancellation fee. My two main questions are; if we were never informed of a cancellation fee and no contract verbal or otherwise was ever made then surely a simple bill is not proof of debt, right? Second I feel the debt collectors grossly under-performed with my request specifically with showing me proof of licensing to collect in Arizona. So whats my next step here? I already requested that all communications be in writing. It has been maybe two weeks since their letter to me and I haven't responded yet.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    38,867

    Default Re: Is a Copy of a Bill "Proof of Debt"

    The debt collector sent you all they are required to send you.

    Have you contacted the creditor asking them to provide proof you are liable for a cancellation fee?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    18,340

    Default Re: Is a Copy of a Bill "Proof of Debt"

    Quote Quoting azwelder
    View Post
    we were never informed of a cancellation fee and no contract verbal or otherwise was ever made
    Are you sure about that.

    Lots of people sign contracts either on paper or electronically, never read the contract, and don't keep a copy. Then years later "They never told me."

    Beyond that, I agree that contacting the original creditor might be helpful but, if the original creditor has long ago written it off and sold it to the collection agency, he might not give you the time of day.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    8,238

    Default Re: Is a Copy of a Bill "Proof of Debt"

    Understand that under the federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (FDCPA), the debt collector does not have to prove the debt to you like it would to court if the collector sued you. All the collector is required to do when you dispute the debt in writing after the collector has contacted you is give you verification of the debt. In general, all this consists of providing you with the information concerning who the original creditor is, what the debt was for, and how much is owed. A copy of the bill from the original creditor may suffice for that. The idea is to give you information to know whether the debt might be legitimate; if you still dispute the debt after knowing what it is about, you don’t have to pay it, of course. But the collector doesn’t have to prove anything unless they sue you, in which case the collector will need to present enough evidence to the court to prove you owe the debt.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    4

    Default Re: Is a Copy of a Bill "Proof of Debt"

    Ok fair enough they sent me all they are required to send me. I absolutely did not sign a contract paper/electronic or any other form. Their proof that we were made known about the policy is that they say the service wont start unless we are made known??? That makes no sense to me there has to be documentation of it. I pressed them(original creditors) months ago about it and they kept talking in circles, I kept asking for proof or documentation and all they kept saying was 'that is our policy sir'. The original creditor will no longer talk to me, already tried that. Just as a side note as well, they charged our account the fee months ago, we told our bank it was not a valid charge, bank gave us a "provisional loan" and said they would look into the matter and contact the vendor. The vendor ended up giving the money back, which they didnt have to do. A month or so goes by then next thing we know we are getting a letter from a collection agency for the 'debt'. I asked the collection agency why the OC would give us back our money if it was valid.........long pause on phone, then a reply to talk to them(OC) about it, which they know is no good seeing that they(OC) no longer have the debt. So once again looking for advise on my next move? Just wait them out or write them explaining my argument to them?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    38,867

    Default Re: Is a Copy of a Bill "Proof of Debt"

    Quote Quoting azwelder
    View Post
    Ok fair enough they sent me all they are required to send me. I absolutely did not sign a contract paper/electronic or any other form. Their proof that we were made known about the policy is that they say the service wont start unless we are made known??? That makes no sense to me there has to be documentation of it. I pressed them(original creditors) months ago about it and they kept talking in circles, I kept asking for proof or documentation and all they kept saying was 'that is our policy sir'. The original creditor will no longer talk to me, already tried that. Just as a side note as well, they charged our account the fee months ago, we told our bank it was not a valid charge, bank gave us a "provisional loan" and said they would look into the matter and contact the vendor. The vendor ended up giving the money back, which they didnt have to do. A month or so goes by then next thing we know we are getting a letter from a collection agency for the 'debt'. I asked the collection agency why the OC would give us back our money if it was valid.........long pause on phone, then a reply to talk to them(OC) about it, which they know is no good seeing that they(OC) no longer have the debt. So once again looking for advise on my next move? Just wait them out or write them explaining my argument to them?

    how do you know the OC doesn't still own the debt?

    there are debt collection agencies and debt buyers. You need to know if the entity you are dealing with is a debt collector hired by the creditor or a debt buyer that has purchased the debt.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    4

    Default Re: Is a Copy of a Bill "Proof of Debt"

    I dont know for sure but when I called last they said my account was closed and passed onto collections, wouldnt discuss the bill at all with me. So how do I find out if Im dealing with a hired collector or debt buyer? And why does it make a difference?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    38,867

    Default Re: Is a Copy of a Bill "Proof of Debt"

    It makes a difference because if the debt was sold to the collection agency, they are the creditor. If you are sued they are who would be suing you. If only a collection agency, the original creditor is who would sue you to collect.

    It could make a difference in whether whoever is suing you actually has all of the necessary proof to prove their claim in court

    and how you find out? Ask.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    4

    Default Re: Is a Copy of a Bill "Proof of Debt"

    Like I said, I tried several times for them to send documentation of this contract or agreement, it wasnt something they wanted to talk about and they never sent anything. I almost felt like they were trying to pull some Colombia House BS on me, 'accept our service, HAHA! accepting our service is an agreement to such and such........"

    Quote Quoting jk
    View Post
    It makes a difference because if the debt was sold to the collection agency, they are the creditor. If you are sued they are who would be suing you. If only a collection agency, the original creditor is who would sue you to collect.

    It could make a difference in whether whoever is suing you actually has all of the necessary proof to prove their claim in court

    and how you find out? Ask.
    Ok thanks,
    So would laying out my argument in writing serve me any good? Or should I just wait them out?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    38,867

    Default Re: Is a Copy of a Bill "Proof of Debt"

    If you are certain you did not bind yourself to a contract where there was no cancellation fee I would ignore them.

    I'm curious as to what the service was. Things like cable tv or other similar services often have s penalty if you are given some special deal price or if you cancel before your contract is for.

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