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  1. #11
    Join Date
    May 2016
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    9

    Default Re: Failure to Return a Hired Vehicle

    On the contrary. I offered to be responsible for it. I didn't exactly lose it. I was informed it was stolen. I attempted to report it as a theft to any and all parties. I did offer to compensate them until it was found. They declined. They said they only wanted the car. I had rented cars from them, in this fashion, for 8 years. I had cars sometimes for 6 months or more. I never had an issue prior. They got the car back. Everyone I knew was searching for that car. It was found and multiple attempts were made in Ky to notify the authorities. The car had been reported stolen in Florida. They actually said to me that if Florida wanted the car, they could come look for it, that unless they contacted them, it wasn't their problem. They refused to do anything until I convinced the investigator in Fla to call the police in Ky like I had asked from the beginning. They had the car within the hour. Had they made this phone call 6 months prior, I do not feel all of the rest of this would of happened.

    How does someone report something stolen if it cannot be found, permission was revoked, and they are faced with different laws from different sites in the course of how it must be reported? So what I feel you are telling me is that I should be charged with theft? That I specifically intended a theft to happen? I could see negligence. Carelessness maybe if the authorized use was questioned. People that steal things don't generally continually involve themselves with the police to have a thing found IMO.

    The only duty I asked of the car company was to verify I was the renter, who they felt was authorized to drive it, as only the could revoke this due to Ky law, and to verify I had notified them to verify these circumstances. Had one phone call been made, I feel the outcome of this case would of been different.

    Again, I sincerely thank you for your opinions. I will surely find out. Even here there are conflicts. No one is addressing what to do when one has theft and cannot get the police to write any kind of a report. Even a report stating they cannot make a report... Arguably, I erred, but I do not feel I committed a felonious crime. A breach of contract. Damages to the accuser... But I never intended that this car would not be returned.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    38,867

    Default Re: Failure to Return a Hired Vehicle

    If nobody was authorized to drive the car other than yourself, why was your friend picking up the car?

    but as far as you were concerned the car was not stolen from you. You gave the friend permission to drive it. In fact, I have seen somebody in a similar situation walk away from court a free person based on the argument the lessee gave them permission to drive the car and never rescinded it.

    the criminal charges stem from the action in Florida. It doesn't matter if you said you were going to Kentucky California or Alaska, you picked up the car in Florida and it was never returned to the rental agency in any state.

    I suppose if you want to get real argumentative the Feds could lay charges as well but since you did not dispossess the vehicle from the rental agency anywhere but Florida, florida is where your criminal charges stem from.

    Your friend on the other hand can face charges in both Florida and Kentucky. The theft in Florida and possession of stolen property in Kentucky.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    9

    Default Re: Failure to Return a Hired Vehicle

    The original reservation had her as a user. The contract I signed did not. The next day I called them to correct this. They gave her the keys, let her pick out the car. It's on video. They checked her documents before leaving. I was with her.

    I gave her permission to turn it in. I did not give her consent to keep it. There are multiple texts and emails insisting that the car be returned, stating she was not allowed to drive it. She had emailed, texted, and talked about this to others. She knew she was no longer allowed to have it. She hid the car for 6 months. The whole time prior, I was under the impression once I got her story that it had been stolen.

    I am not trying to be argumentative. I apologize. My conflict lies that had I been in Florida, I could of revoked her use within 3 days, and filed a theft report. Kentucky does not consider this a theft. They call it joyriding. This is the reason I could not file a theft report. No one in Ky thought I had anything to do with stealing the car. I offered to try to remedy this with the car company. I have emails and witnesses that would corroborate my version. They did falsify their complaint to obtain the warrant.

    I would welcome the federal investigation. That way if procedure was not handled correctly, perhaps this could be fixed so that someone else in my situation did not face this same situation. I swear that I had nothing to do, nor intended that this car not be returned rightfully to its owner. One cannot make anyone do anything, whether it is write a report or make a phone call. It doesn't change the fact that it was stolen. I truly hope she is prosecuted by both states. That would be just. If I need to pay, then I am willing to do so. I did not commit an intentional theft. I failed to return it due to it being stolen from my agent, or myself, depending how you approach it.

    I truly do thank you for your comments.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
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    2,289

    Default Re: Failure to Return a Hired Vehicle

    Quote Quoting Lizzytizzy
    View Post
    The original reservation had her as a user. The contract I signed did not. The next day I called them to correct this. They gave her the keys, let her pick out the car. It's on video. They checked her documents before leaving. I was with her.

    I gave her permission to turn it in. I did not give her consent to keep it. There are multiple texts and emails insisting that the car be returned, stating she was not allowed to drive it. She had emailed, texted, and talked about this to others. She knew she was no longer allowed to have it. She hid the car for 6 months. The whole time prior, I was under the impression once I got her story that it had been stolen.

    I am not trying to be argumentative. I apologize. My conflict lies that had I been in Florida, I could of revoked her use within 3 days, and filed a theft report. Kentucky does not consider this a theft. They call it joyriding. This is the reason I could not file a theft report. No one in Ky thought I had anything to do with stealing the car. I offered to try to remedy this with the car company. I have emails and witnesses that would corroborate my version. They did falsify their complaint to obtain the warrant.

    I would welcome the federal investigation. That way if procedure was not handled correctly, perhaps this could be fixed so that someone else in my situation did not face this same situation. I swear that I had nothing to do, nor intended that this car not be returned rightfully to its owner. One cannot make anyone do anything, whether it is write a report or make a phone call. It doesn't change the fact that it was stolen. I truly hope she is prosecuted by both states. That would be just. If I need to pay, then I am willing to do so. I did not commit an intentional theft. I failed to return it due to it being stolen from my agent, or myself, depending how you approach it.

    I truly do thank you for your comments.
    This does not make any sense. If you were with her when getting the car, why did she have to pick it up for you?

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Behind a Desk
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    98,846

    Default Re: Failure to Return a Hired Vehicle

    Your lawyer in Florida may be able to convince the prosecutor that you should not be prosecuted for the charged offense. It's not clear from your earlier comments, whether a public defender has been appointed to represent you on that charge, but if you are in fact represented by a public defender's office they can pursue their theory that Florida is not the proper venue for the charge and may see how the prosecutor responds when they explain the full facts of the case.

    You can certainly file a police report for "joyriding" in Kentucky. Given that the car dealership was clearly working through the police in Florida, you could also have spoken with the police in that state.
    Quote Quoting K.R.S. Sec. 514.100. Unauthorized use of automobile or other propelled vehicle.
    (1) A person is guilty of the unauthorized use of an automobile or other propelled vehicle when he knowingly operates, exercises control over, or otherwise uses such vehicle without consent of the owner or person having legal possession thereof.

    (2) Unauthorized use of an automobile or other propelled vehicle is a Class A misdemeanor unless the defendant has previously been convicted of this offense, or of violation of KRS 514.030 for having stolen an automobile or other propelled vehicle in which case it shall be a Class D felony.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    9

    Default Re: Failure to Return a Hired Vehicle

    We arrived at the airport. The original reservation was for a car that she felt was unsafe. She was on the original. The new contract did not have her on it. I called to correct this and extend the rental the next day. Their policy Is that this must be in writing. I even purchased insurance to cover her, though I was pretty sure mine would. Mine did. When I tried to use this insurance to cover the theft, they used the fact I didn't have her on the contract in writing.

    She went back and said the car was unsafe that we had been given and requested another be given. She complained. They gave her a different car. I am used to driving in small towns, and she was a better driver. She went and got the car changed as I was dealing with luggage and making arrangements where to stay.

    Try telling that to the police. They said according to me, she had authorized use. I gave her the keys. The agency would have to tell them she wasn't on the contract. I no longer had a copy of the agreement. The car rental agency refused to do anything but send them 2 letters. They said once consent was given, I didn't have the right to revoke it. Only the car company could. They said it had to be the owner of the car to make a theft report. They said also that with them sending those letters, I no longer had the right to drive it, or authorize who did...

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    2,289

    Default Re: Failure to Return a Hired Vehicle

    Quote Quoting Lizzytizzy
    View Post
    We arrived at the airport. The original reservation was for a car that she felt was unsafe. She was on the original. The new contract did not have her on it. I called to correct this and extend the rental the next day. Their policy Is that this must be in writing. I even purchased insurance to cover her, though I was pretty sure mine would. Mine did. When I tried to use this insurance to cover the theft, they used the fact I didn't have her on the contract in writing.

    She went back and said the car was unsafe that we had been given and requested another be given. She complained. They gave her a different car. I am used to driving in small towns, and she was a better driver. She went and got the car changed as I was dealing with luggage and making arrangements where to stay.

    Try telling that to the police. They said according to me, she had authorized use. I gave her the keys. The agency would have to tell them she wasn't on the contract. I no longer had a copy of the agreement. The car rental agency refused to do anything but send them 2 letters. They said once consent was given, I didn't have the right to revoke it. Only the car company could. They said it had to be the owner of the car to make a theft report. They said also that with them sending those letters, I no longer had the right to drive it, or authorize who did...
    Maybe you should have read the second contract before you signed it. Why didn't you just fix it that day if you were at the rental place with her? So even though they told you that you had to get her added in writing you chose to ignore that?

    So she changed the car twice? I have no idea what is going on.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    9

    Default Re: Failure to Return a Hired Vehicle

    I did speak to the police in Florida. I gave them a report. This was not put in their complaint. Their investigator gave me the number. Ni confirmed with the investigator I did so.

    They had a reservation with everything taken care of prior to receiving the car. I contracted over the phone. The contract was ready when I got there. I did not realize when I signed the contract that she was not authorized. You are right that I did not read everything on it. But in all honesty, most people don't. The airport was loud. Orlando. It was extremely busy. If it was discussed I do not remember it. I had no reason to doubt this. They gave her the keys. They allowed her to change the car, drive it, leave the premises with it. Even if it was argued I didn't sign authorization, they gave it to her. They even had us go to a checkout booth to check out. When I realized the next day, I was going to drive home, and keep it for the week, I checked the contract, as it had rates on it that were different than they were quoting on the phone. I noticed the error. I asked them to fix this on the phone. They affirmed. They did not tell me it had to be in writing until I had a problem.

    Yes, the PD is trying to get it dismissed. I am a medical professional. I lost everything I owned, now have an arrest record, and cannot even get a job at McDonalds. I am labeled as a fugitive from justice and having been accused of fraud, am unemployable. I am Ruined. I was never notified of any of Floridas intent until months late when I was informed the car had been found. I was given head lice while incarcerated. I don't need to go on. I assure you, I have suffered. I am still stuck in limbo. I understand I made errors in judgement, but I do not believe they were what I am charged with. I believe that I was harmed by a statute that fails to give due process by them sending two letters. The felony warrant was issued. I was arrested, shackled, transported across state lines, and jailed again. I am now facing charges in Florida for crimes committed in Ky by someone else... Yes, I am involved. If a theft report had been filed, in the manner the police requested, this would not have happened. The airport police in Florida also did not mention my report. This was made to look like I stole the car outright. The facts I have given do not support it. I am not charged with negligence, but intentional fraud. I hope this makes sense.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    2,289

    Default Re: Failure to Return a Hired Vehicle

    Quote Quoting Lizzytizzy
    View Post
    I did speak to the police in Florida. I gave them a report. This was not put in their complaint. Their investigator gave me the number. Ni confirmed with the investigator I did so.

    They had a reservation with everything taken care of prior to receiving the car. I contracted over the phone. The contract was ready when I got there. I did not realize when I signed the contract that she was not authorized. You are right that I did not read everything on it. But in all honesty, most people don't. The airport was loud. Orlando. It was extremely busy. If it was discussed I do not remember it. I had no reason to doubt this. They gave her the keys. They allowed her to change the car, drive it, leave the premises with it. Even if it was argued I didn't sign authorization, they gave it to her. They even had us go to a checkout booth to check out. When I realized the next day, I was going to drive home, and keep it for the week, I checked the contract, as it had rates on it that were different than they were quoting on the phone. I noticed the error. I asked them to fix this on the phone. They affirmed. They did not tell me it had to be in writing until I had a problem.

    Yes, the PD is trying to get it dismissed. I am a medical professional. I lost everything I owned, now have an arrest record, and cannot even get a job at McDonalds. I am labeled as a fugitive from justice and having been accused of fraud, am unemployable. I am Ruined. I was never notified of any of Floridas intent until months late when I was informed the car had been found. I was given head lice while incarcerated. I don't need to go on. I assure you, I have suffered. I am still stuck in limbo. I understand I made errors in judgement, but I do not believe they were what I am charged with. I believe that I was harmed by a statute that fails to give due process by them sending two letters. The felony warrant was issued. I was arrested, shackled, transported across state lines, and jailed again. I am now facing charges in Florida for crimes committed in Ky by someone else... Yes, I am involved. If a theft report had been filed, in the manner the police requested, this would not have happened. The airport police in Florida also did not mention my report. This was made to look like I stole the car outright. The facts I have given do not support it. I am not charged with negligence, but intentional fraud. I hope this makes sense.
    Lesson learned not to trust people in all honesty. Also if people do not read contracts before they sign them, I have little pity. I just am confused as to why she drove the car if you rented and you needed it. That is my confusion. You keep saying they gave her the keys and she was able to change the type of car but she is not the one who rented it. That should have set off red flags.

    Hindsight is 20/20 but it just seems odd she was given all this authority when she was just an additional driver.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    9

    Default Re: Failure to Return a Hired Vehicle

    I understand what you are saying. We went together. Originally I made the reservation so that we could both drive. She lived with me. She often would do all the busy work as I was often working long hours. I already stated she was the better driver. In all honesty, I did not read every single word of that contract. I do not think many people do when it is as long as they are. I looked at it, tried to read what I could. I had previously verified that the terms were what they were. I called to ask how to get them corrected the next day. We were together, traveling together. If it was my husband, my sister, my whatever, she was with me. The reason that giving her the keys (them) is important I believe is that THEY authorized her to use the car whether I did or not. They are the owner. Also, it further gave me the impression that what I believed to be true in the contract was valid. I was not advised there were any problems or additional requirements. In all the years of renting a car, this was never an issue.

    The shame isn't in me trusting someone whom I felt to be a friend. One is supposed to do that. I will not judge, God will. But if wrong was to be guessed, to the way I was raised in thinking, it was when she began this mission and betrayed me with no intention of ever revealing any truths or making things right.

    I am gentle and quiet. She is the opposite. I rented the car, but I assumed as a driver she could drive it as much as I.

    I satisfied every requirement on the front end. When the theft occurred, I attempted to report it. I went to every agency I could, spoke to the county attorney, spoke to Fla. the car rental agency was not interested in assisting me in any manner. Someone mentions that how does someone go on someone's word it is stolen. What is a stolen report, if not that...? When I look up the law, case law seems to favor this being managed in Ky. Even in Florida, I wasn't charged with car theft. The law is very specific in rental property. They must prove I had specific intent to deprive them of the vehicle. I am charged with failing to deliver it. I am the only reason they got the car back. This state requires me to have willingly done this, which why I assume, that they falsified the reports by omitting the contacts I had made and reports I had given of theft. They didn't report the car stolen in Flla, until my car insurance informed them, that they could not not cover the theft without it, and notified them of the polices need in Ky under Fla law. It is one of the few states where this is treated differently. I was bound by those laws as I was a resident of that state, it occurred in that state, and the majority of the witnesses are in that state. I called, emailed, and cooperated on every level.

    Hopefully, all will work out. She was charged and is standing trial. I am stuck in Florida waiting on ruling of dismissal. How long can a judge reserve a motion? God never closes a door without opening a window. All in all, whatever your opinion my be, I thank you all. I know this can be confusing and has rambled on, but there are so many contributing factors that it makes the whole thing very complicated. The statute was created to keep people from renting property and just keeping it. In many cases people would sell or dispose of it, possibly making the payment invalid, or giving false addresses. I honestly rented a car. I thought it was returned. I thought it had been stolen or she had come to harm. Then I thought it had been stolen from her. I was very upset with her, but I offered to try to take care of it financially in the beginning while trying to figure out what to do. I do not think arresting me and doing all that was done was appropriate. If they had the right to do what was done, why lie and omit information on the police report used to get the warrant?

    I realize there is a gamut of information, but it was because I did address it, tried to reconcile it, and continued to fix it over several months. As you all had many questions, so did they. The explanations make it seem more plausible, than on the surface. It is a mess. Hopefully, it might help someone else. Sometimes things get stolen and people cannot get a police report. Sometimes things differ from state to state. The argument for prosecution in Ky was because the theft occurred in Ky. I was held to the law of Ky when it was reported. The car rental agency designated Ky as the receiving agent, not them. I did not fail to return it to them. It was not ever to be returned to them. They might have an argument for money, which makes it civil, but not criminal.they sent the demand letters to Ky, the address of record. No crime was ever committed in Fl. Even if one argues breach of contract, the terms of the contract were that the receiver was to be Ky. They were the agent harmed...of the car. Monies paid were valid until the fla agency denied any additional acceptance of them. I have witnesses to validate these twisted events.

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