Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 11 to 15 of 15
  1. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Somerville, MA
    Posts
    101

    Default Re: Perjury During the Harassment Prevention/Restraining Order Hearing

    Quote Quoting L-1
    View Post
    Not necessarily. It will depend on the specifics of what was said. Here are the instructions judges give most juries when considering issues of truthfulness:

    Sometimes a witness may say something that is not consistent with something else he or she said. Sometimes different witnesses will give different versions of what happened. People often forget things or make mistakes in what they remember. Also, two people might see the same event but remember it differently. You may consider these differences, but do not decide that testimony is untrue just because it differs from other testimony.
    L-1,

    You are absolutely right. Specifics do matter.

    Here are two versions of events he had presented.

    V1 (presented in the affidavit). I blocked him and his fiance from accessing their washer in the basement when they went there.

    V2 (presented in the courtroom). I was hanging out in the basement, him and his fiancee were afraid to go there, they had to call the police and have them extract me from the basement.

    In truth, neither version occurred as all that happened was that his fiance and I were in the basement together for maybe 30 seconds and no interaction occurred - but no matter. V1 was presented a week afterwards, V2 three weeks after the date, so neither can be written off as a result of fear-induced stress and confusion.

    So I would say few people would not be persuaded that one of the two times he did necessarily lie.

    IMO, I would personally go with V1 if I were to design a narrative as V2 makes little sense. It would have me supposedly waiting for them to intimidate or assault them in the basement. But what if it was not their laundry night and I had to wait for a few days. Kind of makes little sense. But that is all details - what's relevant here is that I am not sure how V1 and V2 can be reconciled without one of them classified as a lie.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    8,238

    Default Re: Perjury During the Harassment Prevention/Restraining Order Hearing

    But what is the material difference between them? In other words, if the statement at trial was true and the first was a lie, so what? If the true statement had been given in the affidavit, it likely would not have changed the outcome of how this went, and vice versa. The prosecutor would have to be convinced that both were lies (and not simply mistakes in recollection), I think, before a prosecutor would touch it and I’m not seeing enough there to make me want to pursue it if I were that prosecutor. You admit being in the basement with the fiancé, so that part of the statement was true.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Somerville, MA
    Posts
    101

    Default Re: Perjury During the Harassment Prevention/Restraining Order Hearing

    Quote Quoting Taxing Matters
    View Post
    But what is the material difference between them? In other words, if the statement at trial was true and the first was a lie, so what? If the true statement had been given in the affidavit, it likely would not have changed the outcome of how this went, and vice versa. The prosecutor would have to be convinced that both were lies (and not simply mistakes in recollection), I think, before a prosecutor would touch it and I’m not seeing enough there to make me want to pursue it if I were that prosecutor. You admit being in the basement with the fiancé, so that part of the statement was true.
    Predictions and "what if?" games are hard and not an exact science, so you may be right - but I feel that is unlikely. If the true statement were given he would have to admit that:

    1) he wasn't in the basement at all;

    2) his fiance and I were there at the same time and no interaction occurred.

    So, in short, he would have to admit that there was no harassment which is materially different from both V1 and V2 of the story he had relayed.

    As to the material difference between V1 and V2 - yes, I'd say they are materially different. V2 is an allegation of passive behaviour that is even not clearly threatening in any way, form or shape. The basement is a communal area - and I could have been present there all I wanted. So V2, even if true, amounts to next to nothing as far as claims of harassment go.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    8,238

    Default Re: Perjury During the Harassment Prevention/Restraining Order Hearing

    Quote Quoting plushevyitigr
    View Post
    As to the material difference between V1 and V2 - yes, I'd say they are materially different. V2 is an allegation of passive behaviour that is even not clearly threatening in any way, form or shape. The basement is a communal area - and I could have been present there all I wanted. So V2, even if true, amounts to next to nothing as far as claims of harassment go.

    V2 is what he said in court, when it really mattered. But you are saying that statement was not material because it couldn't support the charge anyway, and you got acquitted. So there’d be no perjury prosecution over that even if the witness lied. As for V1, the state still has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the statement was a lie and not a mistake. I don’t see enough here for the prosecutor to run with. Obviously the actual prosecutor doesn’t either, and there isn’t anything you can do to force the prosecutor to file perjury charges. I realize you are angry at this person for what happened, but you may have just accept that the courts aren’t going to provide you any satisfactory pay back to him for this.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Somerville, MA
    Posts
    101

    Default Re: Perjury During the Harassment Prevention/Restraining Order Hearing

    Quote Quoting Taxing Matters
    View Post

    V2 is what he said in court, when it really mattered. But you are saying that statement was not material because it couldn't support the charge anyway, and you got acquitted. So there’d be no perjury prosecution over that even if the witness lied. As for V1, the state still has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the statement was a lie and not a mistake. I don’t see enough here for the prosecutor to run with. Obviously the actual prosecutor doesn’t either, and there isn’t anything you can do to force the prosecutor to file perjury charges. I realize you are angry at this person for what happened, but you may have just accept that the courts aren’t going to provide you any satisfactory pay back to him for this.
    V1 is what he said in an affidavit which is also sworn. Why would that not really matter?

    I am not sure why something should be viewed as immaterial simply because it ended up being an ineffective lie. V2 is exactly that - a lie he told in an attempt to further his objective. It is for the lack of intellect on the plaintiff's part, not for the lack of will to lie on his part that it failed.

    Now I realize that the practice seems to be that that is the end of it - which doesn't make it any less pathological. We as a society essentially are sending psychopathic liars like this one a message that while we see who they are we are more or less OK with their behaviour and don't mind them taking another stab at it.

    As to my anger - put it this way: I am far less angry at this individual who is just a random asshole out there than I am at the system that fails to reign him in.

    1. Sponsored Links
       

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2

Similar Threads

  1. Violation & Enforcement: Violation of Anti-Harassment Order
    By tonk in forum Orders of Protection
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 11-17-2013, 06:34 AM
  2. Establishment: Can My Ex-Boyfriend Get an Anti-Harassment or Restraining Order Against Me
    By alyssantate in forum Orders of Protection
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 12-11-2012, 01:33 PM
  3. Violation & Enforcement: Harassment by Third Parties After a Restraining Order
    By whispers in forum Orders of Protection
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 06-01-2012, 04:17 PM
  4. Harassment Restraining Order
    By ladywithanissue in forum Orders of Protection
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-02-2011, 08:20 AM
  5. Can I Get Restraining Order for Harassment?
    By dsnyder in forum Orders of Protection
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-25-2008, 06:15 PM
 
 
Sponsored Links

Legal Help, Information and Resources