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  1. #1

    Default How to Sue a Foreign Government in a U.S. Court

    Dear Community,

    maybe you can help me, or give some advice, in this tricky case.

    The original case is, that I got a flat sold, where the seller did not really own this flat. The flat had been build inside the roof of a multi flat house. An architect was allowed to use the attic by all the other owners who owned flats inside the house, as storage. But he build a flat inside the attic. Then he got this flat certified by officials by the state of bavaria. In spring 13, the building register of the state of bavaria got informed by the building authority about this unauthoriced flat. I got this flat sold in september 13, still with a valid certificate of the state of bavaria. Even paying allmost 900€ for registering my ownership and paying 12420€ in tax.
    By law, the state of bavaria would have to revoke the certifikate in spring 13, after getting knowledge about the legal issue. But they did not, because they had been affraid of getting liable of the 250'000€ mortage being registered on this flat at this time.

    That the damage is much higher today, they are not interested in.

    I won the case against the architect, but the architect filled bankrupt and bavaria is not doing anything, that I do get my money back from him.

    I do not trust the legal system in Germany anymore.

    So lets have a look at the history of bavaria. After WW2 bavaria had been concquered by US forces. After the end of war, bavaria was occupied by US. The US Military government wanted, that bavaria gets under self controll really fast. So Lucius D. Clay, deputy military governor of occupied germany, ordered bavaria to constitute themselfes. So with the help of Walter J Mueller, leader of the office of military government in Bavaria, the new bavarian constitution was taking in place.

    Art. 106
    (1)
    Each resident of Bavaria shall be entitled to adequate housing.
    (2)
    The furtherance of the construction of low -priced social housing shall be the task of the state and the municipalities.
    (3)
    The home shall be a sanctuary for everyone and shall be inviolable.
    Art. 98
    1
    In principle, the basic rights guaranteed by the Constitution must not be restricted.
    2
    Restrictions by law shall only be admissible if this is absolutely necessary for the public safety, morality, health and welfare.
    3
    Other restrictions shall only be admissible subject to the prerequisites of Art. 48.
    4
    The Higher Administrative Court must declare void any laws and ordinances which restrict a basic right in violation of the Constitution.
    The Basic Rights are Art 98 - 123. So Art 106 is a basic right an the order to the Higher Administrative Court is quite clear. Howsoever, the High Administrativ court ruled 1962, that 106 I BV is a "program" and not a right of the citizen. Some other basic rights got cut same way.

    If you have a look to
    Art. 75
    (1)
    1
    The Constitution can only be changed by way of legislation.
    2
    Motions for changes of the Constitution which are opposed to the fundamental ideas of democracy of the Constitution shall be inadmissible.
    (2)
    1
    Resolutions of the Bavarian State Parliament for a change of the Constitution shall require a majority of two thirds of its members.
    2
    They must be presented to the people for decision.
    (3)
    The Bavarian Constitutional Court shall rule on disputes as to whether the Constitution should be changed by a law or whether a motion aims for an admissible change of the Constitution.
    (4)
    Changes of the Constitution must be included in the wording of the Constitution or in an annex.
    While

    Art. 68
    (1)
    The Bavarian Constitutional Court shall be formed at the Higher Regional Court in Munich.
    (2)
    The Constitutional court shall be composed as follows:
    a)
    In the cases governed under Art. 61, it shall be composed of one of the Presidents of the Bavarian Higher Regional Courts, eight professional judges, three of whom sit in the Higher Administrative Court, as well as another ten members to be elected by the Bavarian State Parliament;
    b)
    In the cases under Art. 65, it shall be composed of the President and eight professional judges, three of whom sit in the Higher Administrative Court;
    c)
    In all other cases it shall be composed of the President, three professional judges, two of whom sit in the Higher Administrative Court, and five members elected by the Bavarian State Parliament.
    (3)
    1
    The President and the professional judges shall be elected by the Bavarian State Parliament.
    2
    They cannot be members of the Bavarian State Parliament.
    So if a simple majority is enough to declare a judge to the high court, the government is able, to select "loyal" judges. So it is impossible, to get your rights from constitution by court.

    Since the people of bavaria never got a chance, to reconstitute themselves, I am asking myself, is there a way, by any chance, to get back to the US legal system.
    Because, having a lawsuite against germany I do prefere a judge, not being on the payroll of germany.

    And, is there is a place, where you can find an attorny to bring this case in front of an US Judge, or US Military court?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: How to Sue the State of Bavaria in Front of an Us Court

    How do you think you have any standing to bring a case in Germany in a US civilian or military venue? Just because we occupied Bavaria for a brief time after the end of the war doesn't give you any standing now. Your redress is with the German judicial system.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    7,091

    Default Re: How to Sue the State of Bavaria in Front of an Us Court

    The U.S. courts have no jurisdiction over this dispute. This is an issue of purely German law and concern, and you have to use what methods of recourse German law allows for this.

  4. #4

    Default Re: How to Sue the State of Bavaria in Front of an Us Court

    Well. But Obama himself said in Ramstein, Germany is not independend.
    So, since the constitution, written by the US Military government is not working anymore. On wich legal system can you have this checked?
    1946, as a requirement of becoming self controlled, the bavarian constitution was given. The US Military Government even has been this nice, to make it changeable (Art 75). So if the High Court refuses to obey Art 98 IV, so under which circumstances can you get this in front of an US Court? Is the Alien Tort Claims Act a key to the US Legal system?

  5. #5
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    7,605

    Default Re: How to Sue the State of Bavaria in Front of an Us Court

    You CANNOT get this into a US court. They have NO jurisdiction. I'm not sure what you're on about Obama and Ramstein,

  6. #6
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    Default Re: How to Sue the State of Bavaria in Front of an Us Court

    You're full of crapola.

    First, Obama never said anything like that. While he and Chancellor Merkel made extensive remarks in Cairo about middle eastern refugees, neither those words nor sentiment were given. Further, even if he did, it means nothing to your problem.

    Your secoind point is equally silly. First off, the last German Constitution was terminated when Hitler rose to power. The post war German law is called the Grundgesetz (or in English, The Basic Law). Still, while it may have been guided by the occupying military, it alone provides your redress. Nothing there gives you any rights under our supreme law, the US Constitution.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: How to Sue the State of Bavaria in Front of an Us Court

    Quote Quoting Lifeguard1978
    View Post
    So if the High Court refuses to obey Art 98 IV, so under which circumstances can you get this in front of an US Court? Is the Alien Tort Claims Act a key to the US Legal system?
    There are no circumstances that would allow you to bring this case before any U.S. court because U.S. courts have no jurisdiction over what is a purely German legal matter. Germany is not now and has not been for many decades controlled or occupied by the U.S. Germany is a sovereign nation, and its laws and its courts are what govern this real estate dispute. The U.S. has nothing to do with it.

  8. #8

    Default Re: How to Sue the State of Bavaria in Front of an Us Court

    I am aware of, that there might be no jurisdiction within germany. But, there is a lot of Gold of Germany in New York. So getting a title, my family could easily reimbursed from this.

    I am going one step before "Grundgesetz". Since the people of germany never refound Germany in its boundaries, and still, a peace treaty is pending.
    Since Bavaria is still occupied by US Forces and German tax payers are still paying for occupation, a final settlement is still pending. I don't have any problem about the part still paying. I am aware, that with this we have some sort of functioning military in our country.

    While Grundgesetz where written by Great Britain, France and US and were placed in power 1948, the constitution of bavaria, as well as the costitution of Hessen and Baden Würtenberg were written by the US and set in place by them.

    So the first question is. How long does a contract of two states last? In 1946 the premise of self government had been the installation of Mr Muellers Bavarian constitution.

    So, if the then installed bavarian government refuses to totally set this constitution into power, which judge has to settle this problem?

    Going on in History. Bavaria hvoted against Grundgesetzt, but being forced to accept it. But this is normal, if you are occupied. In 1990, the winning countries as well as the german people had the chance, to make a peace treaty. Why this failed, I don't know. The Grundgesetz were allways ment as a temporary constitution. So in writing it, it was not suppossed to survive any kind of reunion. So, the Grundgesetz was supposed to get "old" Boundarys back, in 1990 Germany acctually was found within boundaries, it never had before.

    Don't missunderstand. I do not have any problems about the "new" German boundaries. How soever, I do have a problem, that the old nazi system survived till today. Many laws, causing me problems in my case today were written 1933 - 1945.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: How to Sue the State of Bavaria in Front of an Us Court

    Bavaria is NOT an occupied territory. Where the heck are you getting this nonsense?

    The treaty, which was NOT a peace treaty, WAS ratified and passed. Germany is it's own sovereign nation.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: How to Sue the State of Bavaria in Front of an Us Court

    Quote Quoting Lifeguard1978
    View Post
    I am aware of, that there might be no jurisdiction within germany. But, there is a lot of Gold of Germany in New York. So getting a title, my family could easily reimbursed from this.
    No, you do not understand. There is no jurisdiction for U.S. courts over this dispute. This means that U.S. courts have no power to hear the dispute and have no power to render a judgment against Germany or any political subdivision of Germany, including Bavaria, in this dispute. Your only legal recourse for this is through the German courts. If the German courts rule against you after you exhaust all your appeals then there is nothing you can do.

    By the way, if you had the same problem in the U.S. that you have in Germany you could not successfully sue a city or state government for that either.

    Simply put, trying to sue in the U.S. to try to get around the problems you have had in the German courts will not work. Nor could you sue in the United Kingdom or France either.

    Germany has not been occupied by the Allies (U.S., France, and U.K.) since the 1940s. Germany has been a sovereign nation for decades. Only Germany’s government and the EU determine what the laws are in Germany. The U.S. has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with German lawmaking today.

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