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  1. #1

    Default Speeding in a School Zone Ticket, but the Flashing Lights Weren't On When I Entered

    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: Texas

    I was pulled by highway patrol for doing 60 in a 35mph school zone. When I went through the school zone the lights were not flashing. He stopped my 7/10ths of a mile outside the school zone. I told him the lights were not n when. Was in the zone and his reply was your getting a ticket. When I got my ticket I noticed the time it was printed. It said 7:31. The lights (an I Have documented evidence) are programmed to be turned on at 7:30. I went to court today with a plea of not guilty explaining to the DA , how is it possible for me to get pulled 7/10ths of a mile outside the school zone going 60mph at a minute per mile, explain to the officer I was not speeding, he take my information back to his car , write a ticket and print it out all with a minute? He said he would not dismiss the ticket but have it reduced. I told him no, I want a jury trial.

    Do here I am waiting for my court date? I wanted your thoughts and also what kind of questions can I ask the officer and what would you say to the jury?

    Thanks for your time

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Speeding in a School Zone Ticket, but the Flashing Lights Weren't On When I Enter

    Exactly what does the speed limit sign say? For example, does it say something along the lines of, "Speed Limit 25 MPH when lights are flashing"? It makes a difference to your defense whether the lights define the school zone hours, or if they're instead an additional reminder of a school zone speed limit that is in effect whether or not they are flashing.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Speeding in a School Zone Ticket, but the Flashing Lights Weren't On When I Enter

    The sign says "Speed limit 35 mph when lights are flashing". Nothing else

    I have an email from TexDot after doing an open records request that says they are programmed to be turned on at 7:30 a.m.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Speeding in a School Zone Ticket, but the Flashing Lights Weren't On When I Enter

    You are toast lights or not.

  5. #5
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    Feb 2016
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    Default Re: Speeding in a School Zone Ticket, but the Flashing Lights Weren't On When I Enter

    Quote Quoting larbec
    View Post
    I was pulled by highway patrol for doing 60 in a 35mph school zone. When I went through the school zone the lights were not flashing. He stopped my 7/10ths of a mile outside the school zone. I told him the lights were not n when. Was in the zone and his reply was your getting a ticket. When I got my ticket I noticed the time it was printed. It said 7:31. The lights (an I Have documented evidence) are programmed to be turned on at 7:30. I went to court today with a plea of not guilty explaining to the DA , how is it possible for me to get pulled 7/10ths of a mile outside the school zone going 60mph at a minute per mile, explain to the officer I was not speeding, he take my information back to his car , write a ticket and print it out all with a minute? He said he would not dismiss the ticket but have it reduced. I told him no, I want a jury trial.

    Do here I am waiting for my court date? I wanted your thoughts and also what kind of questions can I ask the officer and what would you say to the jury?
    ...
    The sign says "Speed limit 35 mph when lights are flashing". Nothing else
    Hi, larbec.

    I don't know what the speed limit is when lights are not flashing, but you seem to have a valid defense against the school zone ticket.

    So, your testimony is hopefully that you saw the school zone sign, and clearly observed it was not flashing when you entered it, and continued to drive at the posted speed limit. You received a ticket time stamped just one minute after the zone went into effect, after driving for 7/10 of a mile (40+ seconds). Might help slightly to say that you drive this route frequently, and are fully aware of the zone and reasonably concluded that you entered the zone prior to it becoming in effect that day since it was a little before 7:30 by your estimation. But all that matters is if the sign lights were flashing that day. Seems that there could be reasonable doubt if the lights were flashing when you entered the zone that day.

    Some questions you could ask the officer (since you asked)...
    What exactly did officer observe?
    From where? How far away, facing which direction?
    So was officer stationary, or traveling in same direction or opposite direction?
    If stationary, was officer stationed there for a while?
    Was his purpose at that time to enforce the traffic safety in the proximity of the school?
    Did he observe the flashing light come on?
    Did he observe both flashing lights come on, or just the one closest to him?
    Did he observe you enter the school zone after observing the school zone light come on?
    About how much time elapsed from when he observed the light come on and he observed your vehicle traveling in the school zone?
    Were you the first vehicle he stopped that morning after observing the light come on?
    Did he observe you pass a flashing school zone light?
    Could he clearly see the face of the sign you passed showing a flashing light before you entered the school zone?
    If not, and officer only observed one sign, can he prove the other sign was flashing (of course not; could have different timing, or bulbs burned out).
    Similar questions if officer was driving. If he was traveling in the opposite direction, you may be able to point out that the sign he saw was not the one you passed.

    Discovery could help.

    Regards,
    Jim

  6. #6

    Default Re: Speeding in a School Zone Ticket, but the Flashing Lights Weren't On When I Enter

    Thanks Jim, I really appreciate the questions too. The speed there when the lights are not flashing is 55 mph. We own a small cafe about 2 mikes from that school zone and travel this road set least 4 to 5 times a week

    Oh, I'm going in front of a trial not just a judge

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Speeding in a School Zone Ticket, but the Flashing Lights Weren't On When I Enter

    Quote Quoting larbec
    View Post
    Oh, I'm going in front of a trial not just a judge
    Yeah, you said you wanted a jury trial. I think you may have a great chance, depending upon what actually transpired (you have not said much about how officer observed you).

    Quote Quoting larbec
    View Post
    really appreciate the questions too.
    You could also ask officer if the time on the ticket is a reasonable estimate of the time at which the ticket was issued. If he says yes, you can take it from there. If not, move on.

    Regards,
    Jim

  8. #8

    Default Re: Speeding in a School Zone Ticket, but the Flashing Lights Weren't On When I Enter

    Again thanks Jim.

    I've not said anything about the officer because at this time I have no clue. I had to appear with the district attorney who was a trooper and he wanted to reduce my fine. After explaining and showing him the evidence he said he wasn't going to dismiss it without the officer present.

    Not to be a pain but are there rebut-tie questions or things. May or may not want to say in regards to the questions you mention above?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
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    Virginia, USA
    Posts
    107

    Default Re: Speeding in a School Zone Ticket, but the Flashing Lights Weren't On When I Enter

    Quote Quoting larbec
    View Post
    Not to be a pain but are there rebut-tie questions or things. May or may not want to say in regards to the questions you mention above?
    Hi, larbec.

    It's really not practical to list all of the potential followup and rebuttal questions. The questions you ask are going to depend upon the officer's testimony and answers. You will need to think on your feet, and with each statement the officer makes, you will need to see if there is a way to use it to create reasonable doubt. While you think, you could repeat the officer's answer, and make a statement about what it means.

    For example, if officer testifies that the time on the ticket is a reasonable estimate of the time the ticket was issued, you would state something like "so it appears that officer's testimony is that I traveled through a school zone of x tenths of a mile, officer pulled me over after traveling 7/10 mile passed the end of the speed zone which takes nearly a minute, and issued a ticket within one or two minutes of the time which the school zone takes effect. There is reasonable doubt if this sequence of events is possible due to the short time frame, and if the officer's statement about the time of the ticket is factual, there is certainly question as to if the speed zone was in effect at the time which I traveled through it. I repeat, I am certain the lights were not flashing when I passed the school zone sign."

    There is a whole other line of questioning regarding how the officer determined your speed, but since you claimed that the lights were not flashing, I did not even touch on that. Your whole case hinges upon your own testimony, and the time of the offense as well as officer's location and observations can possibly provide some credibility to your testimony. But it could all fall apart in an instant.

    If officer testifies that he clearly observed you enter the speed zone and pass a flashing light at 7:31, you don't have much of a case, and might as well ask the judge to whom you should write the check. :-) That's why discovery would be advisable.

    Quote Quoting larbec
    View Post
    Again thanks Jim.
    You're welcome. I'm happy to attempt to help. Good luck and best regards,
    Jim

  10. #10
    Join Date
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    38,867

    Default Re: Speeding in a School Zone Ticket, but the Flashing Lights Weren't On When I Enter

    One thing not mentioned;

    while the the lights are scheduled to activate at 7:30, do. They in fact activate at or after 7:30. It is possible they are improperly set and could turn on at any time, including times like 7:25.

    If if they are not set correctly the argument of when they are scheduled to be in is meaningless. Even the intent is they are not turned on until 7:30, the fact the sign says anytime they are displayed the speed limit is 35 mph will mean you lose.

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