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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
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    Exclamation Defending Against a Charge for Having Sex in a Public Place

    My question involves criminal law for the state of: Pennsylvania

    My girlfriend and I were having sex in a car. It was night time and you can hardly see inside of the car. I agree there were people walking by and resident area was about 100 feet away but I wasn't having sex in front of people intentionally. Police sent citation saying "in view of several public" and didn't mention car at all. I wasn't having sex in front of several people? There were couple people walking by but it was night time and hardly people can see inside of the car.

    Charged with Disorder Conduct Hazardous/physi Off .

    Also if I plead not Guilty can they charge me with more if I was found guilty later?

    My girlfriend got same Non-Traffic Citation. And would it be in our records if people do background checks on us?

    Any suggestions on what should my girlfriend and I should do?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
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    Massachusetts
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    Default Re: Can I Be Found Not Guilty or May Be Less Penalty Due to the Wording of Police

    I suppose, Get a room, is probably not the suggestion you're looking for?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    Default Re: Can I Be Found Not Guilty or May Be Less Penalty Due to the Wording of Police

    It depends on exactly what statute you are charged with violating. It sounds like you might be charged with violating the state statute that penalizes disorderly conduct under the provision for creating “a hazardous or physically offensive condition by any act which serves no legitimate purpose of the actor.” 18 Pa.C.S.A. § 5503(a)(4). The full text of the disorderly conduct offense is:

    (a) Offense defined.--A person is guilty of disorderly conduct if, with intent to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof, he:
    (1) engages in fighting or threatening, or in violent or tumultuous behavior;
    (2) makes unreasonable noise;
    (3) uses obscene language, or makes an obscene gesture; or
    (4) creates a hazardous or physically offensive condition by any act which serves no legitimate purpose of the actor.
    (b) Grading.--An offense under this section is a misdemeanor of the third degree if the intent of the actor is to cause substantial harm or serious inconvenience, or if he persists in disorderly conduct after reasonable warning or request to desist. Otherwise disorderly conduct is a summary offense.
    (c) Definition.--As used in this section the word “public” means affecting or likely to affect persons in a place to which the public or a substantial group has access; among the places included are highways, transport facilities, schools, prisons, apartment houses, places of business or amusement, any neighborhood, or any premises which are open to the public.

    As you can see from subsection (c), you were clearly in “public” as there were people walking by that could see you if they had bothered to look and obviously the cop saw you. It was place where the public had access, so even if no one had been there at the time it was still in public. Given the circumstances I think the state would have a hard time proving you acted with the intent to “to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm” but the DA might succeed in arguing that by having sex in a car located where other people might see you that you acted “recklessly” in creating a risk that you’d cause public inconvenience, annoyance, or alarm. The crime is a summary offense and thus not very serious unless the state is going to allege that you intended to to cause substantial harm or serious inconvenience, and I don’t see that as very likely given just what you’ve said here. For a summary offense, all you are likely facing is a fine here. That said, you might want to at least consult a criminal defense attorney about this and see if you might have good defense to make here and what it would cost you before deciding what to do.

    It’s possible that you could have also been charged with indecent exposure, 18 Pa.C.S.A. § 3127. That is a misdemeanor offense. It does not appear to be an offense that is a sex offense requiring registration, which would have been a very big deal. Still, it looks like the office might have given you a bit of a break in charging you with the disorderly conduct rather than indecent exposure. A misdemeanor charge is more serious than a summary offense. The DA could still amend the charges to indecent exposure if what the cop saw would support that charge.

  4. #4
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    Sep 2010
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    Default Re: Can I Be Found Not Guilty or May Be Less Penalty Due to the Wording of Police

    The PA disorderly conduct summary offense is one of those "garbage" citiations when the cop figures what you were doing OUGHT to be illegal. It will be heard (if you take it to trial) at the magistrate level. I agree that the "potential to cause alarm" isn't the same as "intent to cause alarm." Depending on how hardass the judge is, you have a good chance to beat it, though I'd recommend a lawyer. Even though a summary charge is pretty minor, it can still cause you problems later on if you are convicted.

  5. #5
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    Mar 2016
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    3

    Default Re: Can I Be Found Not Guilty or May Be Less Penalty Due to the Wording of Police

    Would this be found if my future employer runs a background check? As you said i am facing just a fine and not very serious offense.

    Quote Quoting flyingron
    View Post
    The PA disorderly conduct summary offense is one of those "garbage" citiations when the cop figures what you were doing OUGHT to be illegal. It will be heard (if you take it to trial) at the magistrate level. I agree that the "potential to cause alarm" isn't the same as "intent to cause alarm." Depending on how hardass the judge is, you have a good chance to beat it, though I'd recommend a lawyer. Even though a summary charge is pretty minor, it can still cause you problems later on if you are convicted.
    So if I plead guilty and pay the fine I should be fine?

  6. #6
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    Massachusetts
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    Default Re: Can I Be Found Not Guilty or May Be Less Penalty Due to the Wording of Police

    If you plead guilty and pay the fine you will have a criminal record.

    And yes, it is possible that it will come up in an employment background check. It all depends on how deep and thorough a background check is done. If you end up with a criminal record over this, it almost certainly will come up in a background check.

  7. #7
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    Mar 2016
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    Default Re: Can I Be Found Not Guilty or May Be Less Penalty Due to the Wording of Police

    Quote Quoting cbg
    View Post
    If you plead guilty and pay the fine you will have a criminal record.

    And yes, it is possible that it will come up in an employment background check. It all depends on how deep and thorough a background check is done. If you end up with a criminal record over this, it almost certainly will come up in a background check.
    Do i need a lawyer if I plead not guilty? I have plead not guilty in Speeding ticket both time Police and I worked out before we meet judge.

    Also both My girlfriend and I are first time offender we can do expungement or we aren't eligible?

    Also what is a suggestion that my girlfriend and I should do?

    Thanks for helping out

  8. #8
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    Sep 2010
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    Default Re: Can I Be Found Not Guilty or May Be Less Penalty Due to the Wording of Police

    Quote Quoting Deadboy
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    So if I plead guilty and pay the fine I should be fine?
    I didn't say that. I said I'd get a lawyer and fight it. While the worst you'll get is a fine, some background checks will see summary offenses and they will see the nature of the offense, not just that it was a disorderly conduct, which might look bad to you.

    Most non-governmental background checks on the other hand won't see summary offenses.

    Expungement is available for summary offenses if this is your only offense and FIVE YEARS have passed. Better to not get convicted, period. Especially, when you appear to be factually not guilty of what you were charged with.

    Quote Quoting cbg
    View Post
    If you plead guilty and pay the fine you will have a criminal record.
    Well, PA summary offenses don't show up on the public criminal records.

  9. #9
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    Massachusetts
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    Default Re: Can I Be Found Not Guilty or May Be Less Penalty Due to the Wording of Police

    Still not something I'd want to risk. We all know that things sometimes show up on background checks that shouldn't.

  10. #10
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    Sep 2010
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    Default Re: Can I Be Found Not Guilty or May Be Less Penalty Due to the Wording of Police

    Yep, as I stated, not only can state agencies see the charge, they'll have access to the particulars of the case. This might prove even more embarrasing than a Disorderly Conduct that was just because he shouted profanities at a cop or something.

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