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  1. #1

    Default Failure to Obey Traffic Control Device Ticket on a Metered Entry Ramp

    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: Arizona

    I was entering the freeway during morning rush hour and they had the metered ramps active (red light, green light). I was the only vehicle approaching the metered lights and I saw a DPS Motorcycle trooper in the gore point on the on ramp. I maintained a speed of approx. 40mph while moving closer to the light, and as I reached the light it turned green and I continued through, accelerating to freeway speeds.

    The trooper decided he was going to pull me over and ticket me for running a red light, saying the indicator on the rear of the light was red and therefore I failed to stop at a red light. He told me he would write me a ticket for "Failure to Obey Traffic Control Device" rather than a red light running ticket in order to save me time and money.

    My question is, can I take video of this same instance and use it to fight this ticket? I was completely law abiding seeing as the light actually turned green before I crossed the ramp meter stop bar. I understand it's his word against mine, but I feel I have valid argument and can provide video-graphic evidence that the light changes as you approach if you are the only vehicle. (Also there could be a delay in the changing of said indicator light versus the true stop light)

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Failure to Obey Traffic Control Device

    I'm also in AZ and I stop at those things all the time.

    Unless you have a date and time video of YOUR approach to the light (like from a dash cam that was on at the time), showing a video made at any other time will be meaningless.

    Lesson for the future. ALWAYS stop first no matter what color the light is.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Failure to Obey Traffic Control Device

    Quote Quoting adjusterjack
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    Unless you have a date and time video of YOUR approach to the light (like from a dash cam that was on at the time), showing a video made at any other time will be meaningless.
    It seems like if one can demonstrate a repeatable "malfunction" or in this case proper function of a device, it wouldn't matter if the provided video was of the particular incident that drew the ticket. As in, "See, your honor, here's video of me approaching this light 10 times and each of the ten times the light turned green on approach." Seems like that would establish pretty well the normal function of the device. Unless the officer testifies that there were in fact other vehicles or other conditions present wouldn't it have a good chance of casting enough doubt on the validity of the citation?


    Quote Quoting adjusterjack
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    ALWAYS stop first no matter what color the light is.
    Good way to get rear-ended, doing that on a green.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Failure to Obey Traffic Control Device

    Quote Quoting Gravity
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    It seems like if one can demonstrate a repeatable "malfunction" or in this case proper function of a device, it wouldn't matter if the provided video was of the particular incident that drew the ticket. As in, "See, your honor, here's video of me approaching this light 10 times and each of the ten times the light turned green on approach." Seems like that would establish pretty well the normal function of the device. Unless the officer testifies that there were in fact other vehicles or other conditions present wouldn't it have a good chance of casting enough doubt on the validity of the citation?



    Good way to get rear-ended, doing that on a green.
    If the officer testifies that there is a red indicator light on the other side he can see and this light only illuminates when the red stop light is illuminated, the OP is toast. It may be that the light can be red or green while a single vehicle approaches. I agree that I wouldn't stop on green without a sign requiring that and I can't imagine a sign requiring that.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Failure to Obey Traffic Control Device

    The ramp meters are red upon approach, and only one car is supposed to pass when the light turns green, according to
    http://azdot.gov/media/blog/posts/20...misunderstood- .

    I think the OP has an excellent case, and it sounds like there is even a chance the meter may be functioning as designed according to the link above. If only one car approaches, the light turns green.

    If OP did not run a red light, that is all that matters, and video evidence proving that this light turns green upon approach by one vehicle seems like a sure win to me.

    Regards,
    Jim

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Failure to Obey Traffic Control Device

    Quote Quoting jim_hoerner
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    I think the OP has an excellent case,

    Nope.

    I've driven those lights hundreds of times, maybe thousands.

    Red to Green to Red to Green, etc, happens in a split second. If you try to time it so you can go through the green without stopping YOU LOSE. Period.

    There's no malfunction. That's how they work.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Failure to Obey Traffic Control Device

    Quote Quoting adjusterjack
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    Lesson for the future. ALWAYS stop first no matter what color the light is.
    Quote Quoting Gravity
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    Good way to get rear-ended, doing that on a green.
    And the person doing the rear ending would be at fault and cited because there is ample warning about 200' back that the metered lights are up ahead and drivers should be prepared to stop when the lights are in operation.

    Quote Quoting jim_hoerner
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    I would like to see these strange metering lights that turn from green to red quickly without a yellow.
    In this first video (at 1:06) you can briefly see how the lights change from side to side to allow alternating vehicles entry one at a time:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sun_TaqL-xc

    In this next video you can't see the lights changing but you can see the cars stopping at the lights (0:16) and alternating on to the highway.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaMC1kSH9bU

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Failure to Obey Traffic Control Device

    Quote Quoting adjusterjack
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    In this first video (at 1:06) you can briefly see how the lights change from side to side to allow alternating vehicles entry one at a time:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sun_TaqL-xc
    Wow. That is very interesting. It looks like the behavior of the light is location-dependent in the video (2:25) . And at 3:05 they show a sign indicating that two vehicles are supposed to go through a green. Driving is is getting really complicated there, if one has to look at a sign to see if one should go straight through a green light!

    At 3:20, they show some drivers that do not know how to make a proper right turn, ha.

    Thank you very much for those links, adjusterjack. I have never seen anything like it.

    Jim

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Failure to Obey Traffic Control Device

    Here's a street view of an entrance ramp to our Rte 101 Freeway in Phoenix.

    https://www.google.com/maps/@33.6685...7i13312!8i6656

    The ramp is two lanes merging to one lane. There are signs at the ramp entrance warning that the ramp is metered when flashing and each sign has a light on top that will flash red during appropriate hours of the day during rush hour traffic.

    There is plenty of distance between the start of the ramp and the position of the metered red and green lights so that drivers can slow down and be prepared to stop and proceed one at a time.

    This next photo brings you up to the lights and each side has a warning sign "One vehicle per green."

    https://www.google.com/maps/@33.6687...7i13312!8i6656

  10. #10

    Default Re: Failure to Obey Traffic Control Device

    Quote Quoting adjusterjack
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    Lesson for the future. ALWAYS stop first no matter what color the light is.
    Quote Quoting Gravity
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    Good way to get rear-ended, doing that on a green.
    Quote Quoting adjusterjack
    View Post
    And the person doing the rear ending would be at fault and cited because there is ample warning about 200' back that the metered lights are up ahead and drivers should be prepared to stop when the lights are in operation.
    Well of course the person doing the rear-ending would be at fault, but that doesn't change the fact that doing unexpected things (like stopping a green light--as you suggested--to avoid the possibility of getting a citation) astronomically increase your chances of being in a collision.

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