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  1. #1
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    Default Duty to Maintain and Upgrade Traffic Signals

    If you search my posts, you'll find a bunch of stuff about it. I received a ticket for doing it, went to court and was found 'not guilty'; it was a struggle and a hassle so I'm very sorry I didn't look more carefully (for cops) before going through the red light (I'm not at all sorry I DID go through the light). There are several states that specifically make a provision for doing that but California is not one of them. It has been considered by the state assembly but never made it out of comittee.

    The only provision I could ever find in California law is one that addresses going through a malfunctioning BATTERY operated signal. That, you can legally do.

    One thing that does work, at times, is to lower your sidestand to the ground. I try that first. After that, I look very carefully and then proceed through the light. A local M/C cop told me he does the same thing (except that he couldn't care less if another cop sees him do it). I do it ever time I feel I'm being held hostage by a malfunctioning light and it's saved me quite a bit of time and aggravation.

    Motorcyclists pay taxes, too, and don't deserve to be mistreated. I have worked with the traffic engineers in my town to identify problem signals. If they have the desire, they can rectify the problem but many city engineers simply don't care since most people don't ride motorcycles.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Signal Lights not changing for motorcycles in California

    Well, you can't really blame the city for not having the budget to spend tens of thousands of dollars to correct a problem that only a few people see as an issue. It's a matter of cost-benefit.

    If enough of you get together to address the concern, then they might take it into consideration. But the odd complaint for a single motorcyclist here and there is not likely to effect much. Lobbying works. Lone complaints rarely do.

    Retrofitting these lights is not cheap and takes a great deal of planning ahead of time. My city sought grants and planned for about one year before retrofitting the last two such lights a couple years ago. Had there not been grants available, they would not have done it.

    - Carl

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Signal Lights not changing for motorcycles in California

    With logic like that, you could justify doing nothing about all of the retrofitting (and horrific new construction expense) necessary to accomodate disabled people. Just because people are in a minority hardly justifies discrimination.

    It's true that cities have no financial incentive to do anything about it. As a matter of fact, they would take in less revenue because these violations are not uncommon and usually result in the city's favor.

    Automobile drivers wouldn't put up with this nonsense for more than a day or two...(that includes cops, their wives and their children).

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Signal Lights not changing for motorcycles in California

    Quote Quoting chuckycheese
    With logic like that, you could justify doing nothing about all of the retrofitting (and horrific new construction expense) necessary to accomodate disabled people. Just because people are in a minority hardly justifies discrimination.
    It's hardly "discrimination", it's a cost-benefit thing. Soon enough ALL lights will be changed to motion sensrs of one kind or another. However, it is an expensive project and up until this most recent fiscal year, funds were extremely tight for municipalities in CA. If it comes to a choice of repairing roads or updating an old light sensor, they are going to go for the road.

    Money does not grow on trees, and cities often have very little money for discretionary projects. Thus, they plan road and signal improvements a year or more ahead of time. This is also why they often seek traffic improvement grants and the like to pay for such things.

    - Carl

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Signal Lights not changing for motorcycles in California

    Equal justice and fairness from the government should not be 'discretionary'. 'Cost benefit'?....Oftentimes, fairness comes with a price.

    Carl says: Well, you can't really blame the city for not having the budget to spend tens of thousands of dollars to correct a problem that only a few people see as an issue. It's a matter of cost-benefit.

    Benefit to whom, Carl? If only "a few people see it as an issue"...does that make it less important? If my rights aren't protected this time, maybe yours won't be next time. Government (and decent people) should be concerned about fairness regardless of whether they happen to be the ones adversely affected.

    Motorcyclists pay the very same taxes that others do. They also pay to have their vehicles licensed to be ridden on streets and highways. They deserve to be treated fairly and to make the excuse that they don't matter because either there are so few or that many others aren't affected is a selfish, short-sighted argument.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Signal Lights not changing for motorcycles in California

    Quote Quoting chuckycheese
    Equal justice and fairness from the government should not be 'discretionary'. 'Cost benefit'?....Oftentimes, fairness comes with a price.
    Take it up with the people that finance these things, not me.

    Cities are not huge money printing machines. They have to prioritize spending - roads are no different. They may also not have handicapped accessible curbs on every corner, either.

    Benefit to whom, Carl? If only "a few people see it as an issue"...does that make it less important?
    No. But which roadway improvement programs are you going to recommend they sacrifice to change the light sensors?

    Sit in on a few planning and budget sessions. Learn a little bit about the process and working within budgets. I think it will be very eye opening.

    Motorcyclists pay the very same taxes that others do. They also pay to have their vehicles licensed to be ridden on streets and highways. They deserve to be treated fairly and to make the excuse that they don't matter because either there are so few or that many others aren't affected is a selfish, short-sighted argument.
    They are certainly capable of standing up for their rights as every other citizen does. Some people want stop signs ... others might want holes fixed, or roads re-paved ... some want speed limit changes ... others may want the light sensors changed ... the city makes decisions on spending based upon priorities and available funds. No money equals no improvements. Even if there IS money, the time delay can be many months.

    A city cannot provide everyone with the level of service or access that they desire. There is neither the resources or the capability to provide EVERYTHING that SOME member of the community might want.

    I am certainly not arguing that it should not be done, only why the process is lengthy and why it might not have been done so far. The only reason it was done at all in my city is that they identified grant monies to pay for most of the project. Had they not done so, we'd still have the magnetic sensors. It would have been financially impossible ... well, unless they canceled the sewer improvements and transferred the funds to roads ... but, heck, flooding isn't a big problem now, is it?

    I am truly sorry if you don't understand the concept of budgeting and prioritizing, but that's the way it is. However, if you want to propose additional taxation for road improvements, I am sure the city will appreciate the support and the possibility of additional revenue.

    - Carl

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Signal Lights not changing for motorcycles in California

    Carl, the cop says: A city cannot provide everyone with the level of service or access that they desire. There is neither the resources or the capability to provide EVERYTHING that SOME member of the community might want.

    We're not talking about 'level of service' or 'access', Carl...we're talking about fairness, legality and decency. No, Carl, I don't understand the DECENCY and FAIRNESS issue...why is that not important or owed to a normal taxpayer??

    The plain fact of the matter is, Carl, you're just a regular government worker...any inspection of the times you post messages would reveal that you do so on "cop time". The 'times' don't 'tell tales".~~ You're on the everlasting payroll.. and you always will be...to our detriment.

    I'm heading off for my yearly trek to SE. Asia (Laos, Thailand, Malaysia and Singapore) and I'm leaving good judgment answers in the very responsible hands of Barry.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Signal Lights not changing for motorcycles in California

    Quote Quoting chuckycheese
    We're not talking about 'level of service' or 'access', Carl...we're talking about fairness, legality and decency. No, Carl, I don't understand the DECENCY and FAIRNESS issue...why is that not important or owed to a normal taxpayer??
    Once again, you don't quite understand the finite resources available to even government. Yes, things like lights WILL be changed in time. even the OP said that other lights HAD been changed. But, before you do it you must have the money to do it!

    Do you decide that you need a new car and just run out and get one even if you have no feasible means of purchasing one? Same thing for government.

    The plain fact of the matter is, Carl, you're just a regular government worker...any inspection of the times you post messages would reveal that you do so on "cop time". The 'times' don't 'tell tales".~~ You're on the everlasting payroll.. and you always will be...to our detriment.
    The "everlasting payroll"? What the heck does that mean?

    Look, I work with budgets - payroll, salaries, benefits, equipment, supplies, contracts, etc. No matter what you or someone else may WANT, or even DESERVE or NEED, the fact is that these wants or needs are tempered with reality. That reality may be financial, time constraints, or even manpower. The public may deserve greater police or fire protection, but without funds these wants or desires are impossible.

    The same is true with lights and roads. They do not happen simply because someone wants them to. Whether or not I am currently a government worker or not is irrelevant to the issue. I also ran a business for several years - I know the limitations of budgets and resources.

    As i said, I don't disagree that the sensors should be changed. In fact, they WILL be. The magnetic sensors are gradually being replaced by other sensors. Public outcry will help determine priorities. If there are more people that want to spend the pool of money on road repair or a four-way stop than to replace the magnetic sensors, then the sensors will be put on the back burner. I don't know why you think they can suddenly create money and other resources where none may exist.

    In any event, if you do not like the way it works then advocate for a governmental system that can freely tax their populace so they may provide whatever is necessary at the moment it is needed so that they never have to again worry about the constraints of funding.


    - Carl

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