Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 13
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    California
    Posts
    169

    Default Impaired Driving With a Low BAC

    Quote Quoting Speedy Gonzalez
    View Post
    Tell that to my dumb friend who admitted to having ONE glass of wine. She was convicted at .02 and exhibited ZERO impairment, other than what the officer allegedly observed with her driving - supposedly clipping the edge of a painted double yellow on a left turn. Sorry, but to say the chances of conviction are "negligible" is off the mark here.
    That indeed is sad. Not gonna happen if you have a lawyer worth anything.

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
    View Post
    We get convictions for DUI under .08 all the time ... keep in mind that a drug DUI without alcohol is ALWAYS one where the BAC is ZERO. It is a matter of what impairment the state can show.
    Cdjava, you routinely state that challenging a traffic in ticket in a court trial all but disqualifies you from the right to attend traffic school if you lose, something I have witnessed many times not to be the case. I hope you are as right on this one. In any case, it is a very sad statement about the American justice system if you are right. But, knowing the stakes, I did imply OP should hire a lawyer if charged.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    8,006

    Default Re: Alcohol Absorption and Blood Testing

    Quote Quoting thewiseone
    View Post
    Cdjava, you routinely state that challenging a traffic in ticket in a court trial all but disqualifies you from the right to attend traffic school if you lose, something I have witnessed many times not to be the case.
    Dude, he's been doing this almost his WHOLE life. I'm betting his sample size is significantly larger than yours. He also doesn't say it all but disqualifies you. He just states that it can happen and that.

    Quote Quoting thewiseone
    View Post
    In any case, it is a very sad statement about the American justice system if you are right.
    Why is it a sad statement on the American justice system if someone is convicted of driving under the influence using evidence besides a BAC, which as he pointed out isn't even present for drug cases?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    California
    Posts
    169

    Default Re: Alcohol Absorption and Blood Testing

    Quote Quoting free9man
    View Post
    Dude, he's been doing this almost his WHOLE life. I'm betting his sample size is significantly larger than yours. He also doesn't say it all but disqualifies you. He just states that it can happen and that.
    I believe he's been retired for a while. But I certainly didn't mean any disrespect to cdwjava... sorry of it came across that way. It's just that my experience has been quite different and maybe things have changed since.

    Quote Quoting free9man
    View Post
    Why is it a sad statement on the American justice system if someone is convicted of driving under the influence using evidence besides a BAC, which as he pointed out isn't even present for drug cases?
    Speedy's post tells clearly why. I don't think I need to explain more.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    20,594

    Default Re: Alcohol Absorption and Blood Testing

    Quote Quoting thewiseone
    View Post
    That indeed is sad. Not gonna happen if you have a lawyer worth anything.
    Unless you are impaired.

    Cdjava, you routinely state that challenging a traffic in ticket in a court trial all but disqualifies you from the right to attend traffic school if you lose, something I have witnessed many times not to be the case. I hope you are as right on this one. In any case, it is a very sad statement about the American justice system if you are right. But, knowing the stakes, I did imply OP should hire a lawyer if charged.
    One should always hire an attorney. However, DUI is about IMPAIRMENT and not about a specific BAC. All the .08 does is make it easy to get a conviction because that is the level under which the law says you ARE impaired and there is no real need to prove impairment beyond that. When the BAC is UNDER 08 (as with drug impairment) the state has to show that the person was, in fact, impaired. Hopefully that helps explain it a bit.

    Quote Quoting thewiseone
    View Post
    I believe he's been retired for a while. But I certainly didn't mean any disrespect to cdwjava... sorry of it came across that way. It's just that my experience has been quite different and maybe things have changed since.
    I have been retired for two months ... but, I have a new position with another agency in the Sacramento area. Double dipping as it were, and still involved in the system as a result.

    And as for the issue of traffic school, it is still common practice to deny it if you contest a traffic cite. There are many reasons that this is the case, but, the point is that it happens and it is lawful.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    8,006

    Default Re: Alcohol Absorption and Blood Testing

    Quote Quoting thewiseone
    View Post
    Speedy's post tells clearly why. I don't think I need to explain more.
    Oh no, that ain't gonna fly. Speedy gave an anecdotal account of a single instance where someone MAY have been falsely convicted. I don't have access to the full documentation on the case so I can't say one way or the other. There are far more people rightfully convicted without a BAC or a low BAC, either due to drugs or refusal, than that. A single anecdote cannot stand for the entire system.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    California
    Posts
    169

    Default Re: Alcohol Absorption and Blood Testing

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
    View Post
    However, DUI is about IMPAIRMENT and not about a specific BAC. All the .08 does is make it easy to get a conviction because that is the level under which the law says you ARE impaired and there is no real need to prove impairment beyond that. When the BAC is UNDER 08 (as with drug impairment) the state has to show that the person was, in fact, impaired. Hopefully that helps explain it a bit.
    The question is, of course, was the person indeed impaired. How do you prove that beyond a reasonable doubt? In some cases it is obvious. But I quoted above a claim from Speedy Gonzales that someone was convicted of DUI simply because they clipped a double yellow line, something that can and does happen to sober people every day. Now maybe Speedy got that wrong and there was more to it. But I'm not comfortable leaving it up to a (single) police officer's word to get a person convicted for a misdemeanor with quite serious consequences. That is not "beyond reasonable doubt", and we're not talking about a stop sign or speeding 80 in a 65 zone any more.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    8,006

    Default Re: Alcohol Absorption and Blood Testing

    We don't have all the facts but I would hope a court would not convict on that alone. I am betting there is more to it but we don't have that information.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    California
    Posts
    169

    Default Re: Alcohol Absorption and Blood Testing

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
    View Post
    And as for the issue of traffic school, it is still common practice to deny it if you contest a traffic cite. There are many reasons that this is the case, but, the point is that it happens and it is lawful.
    "Common practice" is your opinion. My experience is different, and some of the other folks here share that notion. I'll grant you it can be denied and it sometimes is, but if a person challenges the charge against them in good faith, they should not be penalized for it. This is a reasonable argument that a good number of judges / commissioners will probably listen to.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    20,594

    Default Re: Alcohol Absorption and Blood Testing

    Quote Quoting thewiseone
    View Post
    The question is, of course, was the person indeed impaired. How do you prove that beyond a reasonable doubt?
    Through testimony and evidence - just like any other case.

    In some cases it is obvious. But I quoted above a claim from Speedy Gonzales that someone was convicted of DUI simply because they clipped a double yellow line, something that can and does happen to sober people every day.
    Simply "clipping" a yellow line is not going to be evidence of impairment beyond a reasonable doubt. What he said was that he knew of someone convicted with a low BAC ... a low BAC does not mean someone is not impaired. Alcohol impairment begins at as low as .02. Some people are clearly and objectively impaired at .03 or greater, others not so much. My wife is clearly impaired at about .04. People on medication are impaired at .00. As a result, we have to make a stronger case to convict people who have a low or no BAC ... at least until there is per se chemical testing for controlled substances in all the states.

    But I'm not comfortable leaving it up to a (single) police officer's word to get a person convicted for a misdemeanor with quite serious consequences.
    Sorry, but the law has consistently allowed proof from a single witness or investigator. It is up to the trier of fact (a judge or a jury) to weigh the evidence and determine if the burden of proof is met. You may not be "comfortable" with it, but that is and has been the standard for a great many offenses - even felonies!

    That is not "beyond reasonable doubt", and we're not talking about a stop sign or speeding 80 in a 65 zone any more.
    Sure, it can be! See above ...

    Quote Quoting thewiseone
    View Post
    "Common practice" is your opinion.
    Well, yeah ... and based upon a quarter century of observation and sharing experiences with officers and court personnel throughout CA on a regular basis. So, I'm pretty confident of it.

    My experience is different, and some of the other folks here share that notion.
    There are always exceptions, but that hardly makes it the rule. And many courts (most of those I still attend) will even announce before the trial and after the roll is taken that the court will accept guilty pleas (now that the defendant knows the officer is present) as the option of traffic school MAY not be available after trial.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    8,238

    Default Re: Alcohol Absorption and Blood Testing

    Quote Quoting thewiseone
    View Post
    But I'm not comfortable leaving it up to a (single) police officer's word to get a person convicted for a misdemeanor with quite serious consequences. That is not "beyond reasonable doubt", and we're not talking about a stop sign or speeding 80 in a 65 zone any more.
    It has always been the case that the testimony of witnesses is admissible evidence and if that testimony is believed by the trier of fact (judge or jury as the case may be) then it may indeed be sufficient to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Even murder convictions have been won on the testimony of a single eye witness to the murder. You might not be “comfortable” with it but it is nevertheless the way it works.

    1. Sponsored Links
       

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Drunk and Impaired Driving: What is the Possibility of an Impaired Driving Charge When Your BAC is Zero
    By Sean Kerrigan in forum Drunk and Impaired Driving Charges
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 12-14-2015, 05:28 PM
  2. Drunk and Impaired Driving: Representing Yourself for an Impaired Driving Charge
    By Maver1ck in forum Drunk and Impaired Driving Charges
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 04-09-2014, 09:32 AM
  3. Post-Conviction Relief: Unfairly Convicted of Impaired Driving
    By MyWorld2 in forum Criminal Procedure
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-15-2013, 09:31 AM
  4. Drunk and Impaired Driving: Impaired Driving Arrest in Las Vegas
    By homerj in forum Drunk and Impaired Driving Charges
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 12-30-2011, 08:46 PM
  5. First offense impaired driving in Canada
    By joanne in forum Drunk and Impaired Driving Charges
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-04-2006, 04:41 PM
 
 
Sponsored Links

Legal Help, Information and Resources