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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    441

    Default Re: Robbery and Assault

    Quote Quoting llworking
    View Post
    Obviously if DeputyDog chooses to come back and explain himself better that could end the controversy.
    I'll try, but I don't know how I can be more clear than I already have been.

    A person who pepper sprays a cop will get a response ranging from closed hand techniques (punches)/use of impact weapon, use of taser, and possibly even deadly force.

    In the police academy, one is taught that if someone incapacitates you, they get your gun and you die. When officers are trained in pepper spray, they must be sprayed and fight after being sprayed. This is to train you for this very scenario. Typical pepper spray training involves being sprayed and then fighting off the bad guy, with it being pointed out that you CANNOT AFFORD TO LOSE because your gun is at stake.

    The bottom line is this, as you eluded to: Pepper spraying a cop will initiate a very violent, life or death, fighting response from the officer. That is for good reason. You incapacitate him, and he has to assume you are going to get his gun.

    I don't want to say enough to out myself or who I work for, but we recently had a scenario in which a guy grabbed an officer's taser - not in a Wal-Mart parking lot, but in a well populated public place. The guy tased the officer and the officer shot him. Guess what? He's already been cleared by the prosecutor and grand jury. It's a good shoot - for good reason.

    As you and others rightly point out, there are absolutely circumstaces in which I would hesitate to go to the gun in such a scenario. My initial statement was this: "You pepper spray a cop, you are going to the hospital." I wasn't referring to retribution. I was referring to the reaction that you are likely to get, which, again, to reiterate, is likely to AT MINIMUM be him coming at you with fists and possibly a baton. Doesn't that sound to you like something that would land someone in the hospital? As I said, that would likely be the MINIMUM response, with the maximum being much worse than that.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    20,594

    Default Re: Robbery and Assault

    I have not read the entire thread, but I will say this: You try and OC me, there WILL BE AN ASSERTIVE RESPONSE!!! Why? Because I know that I will likely be incapacitated by the OC and an incapacitated officer is at great risk of losing his firearm - and if that happens, statistically that weapon will be used against him.

    While that response MAY include the display or discharge of a firearm, it may also include tactical use of a baton or a Taser in response. The bottom liner is, I will not allow myself to be incapacitated no matter how it must be accomplished.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    38,867

    Default Re: Robbery and Assault

    deputy dog, You aren't like the other California cop that frequents the forum. I can be more specific but I won't since you are worried about being outed.



    "You pepper spray a cop, you are going to the hospital." I wasn't referring to retribution. I
    that is a clear, concise, and definitive statement. Unless you are psychic and know that every instance where a perp has pepper spray it will result in them being injured severe enough to warrant a trip to the hospital, you are in fact writing the future.

    I was referring to the reaction that you are likely to get
    yet you said;

    they will end up in the hospital. That is not; likely, probably, maybe, more than likely, most of the time. It is an absolute; you WILL end up in the hospital.


    The guy tased the officer and the officer shot him. Guess what? He's already been cleared by the prosecutor and grand jury. It's a good shoot - for good reason.
    he was cleared quickly. That doesn't mean a lot in today's world. In fact, it can mean something got covered up. Not even suggesting it did in that situation but a quick clearing means very little. In fact, I would prefer it not be so quick that things might be overlooked or swept under the rug. Sometimes it takes a little while for the stories to waft in that suggests maybe they shouldn't have been cleared so quickly.

    While you see quick as good, at best I see it as meaningless and at worst I see it as something really really bad.


    is likely to AT MINIMUM be him coming at you with fists and possibly a baton. Doesn't that sound to you like something that would land someone in the hospital?
    maybe, maybe not.



    so, given all the variables that could be involved where it could be anything from the guy is now running away to he is attempting to take your gun and you have no idea which until you are in the middle of it and from you are literally blinded (albeit temporary) to a runny nose from a light misting of pepper spray; that guy IS going to the hospital, at least if you are the cop on the scene, by your own word.

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
    View Post
    I have not read the entire thread, but I will say this: You try and OC me, there WILL BE AN ASSERTIVE RESPONSE!!! Why? Because I know that I will likely be incapacitated by the OC and an incapacitated officer is at great risk of losing his firearm - and if that happens, statistically that weapon will be used against him.

    While that response MAY include the display or discharge of a firearm, it may also include tactical use of a baton or a Taser in response. The bottom liner is, I will not allow myself to be incapacitated no matter how it must be accomplished.
    and that is very different than;


    the perp WILL end up in the hospital.


    I understand your response and even as extreme as some may read it as, I see it as the situation will determine the outcome. I didn't read in there that the perp WILL go to the hospital simply because you got sprayed. deputy dog made that statement.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    20,594

    Default Re: Robbery and Assault

    Well, while I cannot say that my attacker WOULD go to the hospital, the response from either myself or my peers would definitely be "dynamic." In other words, absent a sudden raising of hands and surrender, he would be taken down hard and fast.

    I agree that if I was unable to see I would probably not be discharging my firearm unless the suspect were upon me, but, I just might do it if he was pointing the canister at me. Maybe.

    Split second decisions often have to be made and then they get Monday morning quarterbacked to death. The officer is expected to make the RIGHT (legally and ethically) decision in a fraction of a second which will be evaluated for a couple of years by multiple parties with opinions at both ends of the spectrum,. Very often it is a no-win scenario. I am glad that in more than 24 years I have never had to make that call - and I hope I never will. But, point a canister of what appears to be a chemical agent at me, and my gun WILL come out ... whether I discharge it or not will depend on the suspect's response.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    38,867

    Default Re: Robbery and Assault

    cdwjava;935230]Well, while I cannot say that my attacker WOULD go to the hospital, the response from either myself or my peers would definitely be "dynamic." In other words, absent a sudden raising of hands and surrender, he would be taken down hard and fast.
    and I have absolutely no argument with that. The problem with deputy dogs statement is it wasn't even relative to the actual incident. It was a stand alone statement and it was quite clear in it's intent.



    Split second decisions often have to be made and then they get Monday morning quarterbacked to death.
    well, I am guilty of that myself at times but that's not what this is. He made a statement that cannot be true...period...unless he intends to make it come true.

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