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  1. #11
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    Default Re: Robbery and Assault

    Thank you all very much for the advice.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Robbery and Assault

    Quote Quoting jk
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    So deputy dog your response to a combative party is to apply excessive force regardless whether needed or not? Thanks for making cops look bad.
    No one mentioned excessive force except you.

    Someone who pepper sprays a police officer can reasonably expect to be shot, depending on the totality of the circumstances, and the fact that said person has now incapacitated the officer, who has a gun on him.

    In this case, it might not be reasonable to shoot her given the presence of the LP as well, but then again with the LP potentially incapacitated as well, deadly force is not entirely off the table. Even if we take deadly force out of the equation, it would be completely reasonable for the officer to use an impact weapon such as a baton and/or closed fist punches to contain the violent felon who is resisting arrest.

    Yes, if she didn't go to the hospital and require a stay there, she's damn lucky - and there's nothing excessive about that amount of force at all.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Robbery and Assault

    Quote Quoting DeputyDog
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    No one mentioned excessive force except you.

    Someone who pepper sprays a police officer can reasonably expect to be shot, depending on the totality of the circumstances, and the fact that said person has now incapacitated the officer, who has a gun on him.

    In this case, it might not be reasonable to shoot her given the presence of the LP as well, but then again with the LP potentially incapacitated as well, deadly force is not entirely off the table. Even if we take deadly force out of the equation, it would be completely reasonable for the officer to use an impact weapon such as a baton and/or closed fist punches to contain the violent felon who is resisting arrest.

    Yes, if she didn't go to the hospital and require a stay there, she's damn lucky - and there's nothing excessive about that amount of force at all.
    Yes, there is. I see you jump right to the deadly force That is about the stupidest thing ever. Here you are half blind whipping out the gun ready to shoot....oh...where is the purp......let me take a few shots over here....whoops, wrong person....let's try here.....finally got them.....and they deserved it.

    You are talking about being in a walmart and dealing with a shoplifter. The risk you present to all the dozens of people likely to be in the immediate area is not worth apprehending the thief, especially considering that people are usually drawn to a scuffle to watch.




    She will have to learn the hard way. By the way, you don't say what LP and the trooper did to her after she sprayed them, but in my neck of the woods, she would have been headed to the hospital after being taken into custody, and the felony charges would have been the least of her worries.
    Really? why is that? Of course if it did require force that injured the person, so be it but your statement is quite clear. There would be retribution for using the pepper spray. Not that you would use whatever force necessary to subdue them but plain and simple: they would end up in the hospital.


    a person never "deserves" to be shot. It may ultimately be required to and even cause their death but once you reach a point of: they deserved it; you are a bad cop. You do what you do because that is how you are trained and what is required in the situation. You don't shoot them because you think they deserved it.

    determining how much force is required is a case by case determination. The fact you can sit there and say; yep, pepper spray; I get to shoot them is so cowboy it makes me shudder. A cop, who is trained properly and maintains control of himself isn't going to say; there is this; I get to do that....They will assess the sitaution and using their training and while maintaining their whits about themselves will determine the best course of action considering all the facts available at the time,

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Robbery and Assault

    It's clear to me that you have an anti-police agenda, so further discussion is probably not productive.

    If you go back and read what I wrote carefully, you will see that, failing to know all of the specific details in this particular incident, I allowed for both the possibility that deadly force would not have been justified as well as the possibility that it would have been.

    The only thing that you said that is correct is that "determining how much force is required is a case by case determination." Nothing that I said negates that or disagrees with it.

    But if we are going to speak in generalities on an incident that we do not have all of the information on, it is still a valid and safe statement to make that someone who pepper sprays a cop here in the course of resisting arrest would likely be headed to the hospital. I stand by that.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Robbery and Assault

    DeputyDog;935121]It's clear to me that you have an anti-police agenda, so further discussion is probably not productive.
    not at all. I just hate bad cops and a cop that makes such a specific statement that is as simple as:\

    they use pepper spray, they WILL go to the hospital, is, at best, a questionable cop.



    If you go back and read what I wrote carefully, you will see that, failing to know all of the specific details in this particular incident, I allowed for both the possibility that deadly force would not have been justified as well as the possibility that it would have been.
    it has nothing to do with that. It is the simple statement:
    . By the way, you don't say what LP and the trooper did to her after she sprayed them, but in my neck of the woods, she would have been headed to the hospital after being taken into custody,
    you weren't there. You have a simple description of the situation. You have no idea if force great enough to cause the person to end up in the hospital is even necessary.

    but then you are talking about deadly force. at a fricken walmart.




    what a fool. The fact that you are considering shooting somebody in most likely a crowd of people when the bad guy has pepper spray. You would be better to let them go before you got stupid and pulled your gun,






    The only thing that you said that is correct is that "determining how much force is required is a case by case determination." Nothing that I said negates that or disagrees with it.
    actally, yes, you did:

    . By the way, you don't say what LP and the trooper did to her after she sprayed them, but in my neck of the woods, she would have been headed to the hospital after being taken into custody,

    But if we are going to speak in generalities on an incident
    YOU spoke using generalities. That is exactly what I'm calling you out on. I surely didn't speak in general terms.

    that we do not have all of the information on, it is still a valid and safe statement to make that someone who pepper sprays a cop here in the course of resisting arrest would likely be headed to the hospital. I stand by that.
    Oh, don't backpedal now. You did not say likely. You said:

    . By the way, you don't say what LP and the trooper did to her after she sprayed them, but in my neck of the woods, she would have been headed to the hospital after being taken into custody,
    that is the problem. You made it very clear you would have put the person in the hospital without regard to anything else.

    you use pepper spray; you WILL go to the hospital.

    sorry dude. you need some retraining.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Robbery and Assault

    I stand by everything I said.

    I don't argue with anti-police trolls.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Robbery and Assault

    jk has been here a long time, and he's neither anti-police nor a troll.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Robbery and Assault

    A lot depends on what the phrase “headed to the hospital” means, too. In my area if the suspect gets much more than a scratch on them the police take them to the hospital as a precautionary measure before hauling them off to jail. So at least here the injury could have been pretty minor and still the person would be “headed to the hospital.” And it’s not hard for me to imagine that a suspect would get some kind of injury in a scuffle with a cop after the suspect used pepper spray the officer. Even in a Walmart parking lot. An officer should never use more than the minimum force necessary to subdue the suspect. If DeputyDog had meant that great harm would come to the suspect even if the situation didn’t warrant it then that would indeed be troubling. But I didn’t take his “headed to the hospital” comment to suggest that. I think it’s possible that more was read into that than was really there.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Robbery and Assault

    Re: DeputyDog
    Quote Quoting jk
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    not at all. I just hate bad cops and a cop that makes such a specific statement that is as simple as:\

    sorry dude. you need some retraining.
    DeputyDog is a bully and most obviously an online troll. If you look at any threads he posts on, he is generally ALWAYS attacking and bullying ppl over whatever they've done. He's not on here to give advice. He's bored. He probably wanted to be a cop, or a judge, or a lawyer, and couldn't make it. This is his only avenue left to try to sit in judgment of people.

    Quote Quoting Mr. Knowitall
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    jk has been here a long time, and he's neither anti-police nor a troll.
    I couldn't agree more. I haven't been on here long but from the threads I have kept up on and what I've read, jk answers ppl's questions with insight and neutrality. DeputyDog on the other hand has Wannabe Cop Cowboy Gunslinger syndrome and would like to lynch any and everyone he deems unworthy of being a human being.

    Which if you look at most of his thread comments, is EVERYONE who ever commits ANY crime or makes ANY MISTAKE at all. Thank God our justice system is not run by errogant ignorant humans (I apply the last word loosely) like him.

  10. #20
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    Oct 2006
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    Default Re: Robbery and Assault

    Bottom line:

    A suspect pepper spraying a cop is at risk for a violent response. Good cop or bad cop its a situation where the cop doesn't know what is going to happen next and has to react on instinct and that is never a good situation. At the same time, a pepper sprayed cop who reacts by firing a gun in a Walmart parking lot risks the lives of innocent bystanders and that is VERY bad.

    Those reacting to DeputyDog's comments are assuming the worst...and I have to agree that their reactions are not invalid. Those defending DeputyDog are assuming the he meant something less lethal, and their opinions are not invalid either.

    Obviously if DeputyDog chooses to come back and explain himself better that could end the controversy.

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