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  1. #1
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    Jan 2016
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    Default Robbery and Assault Charges for Pepper Spraying People

    My question involves criminal law for the state of: PA

    My daughter was arrested in PA for shoplifting at a Wal Mart. She was caught pushing out 2 shopping carts full of merchandise out the front door. When LP and the State Police caught her she pepper-sprayed them both. (You read that right)
    She is charged with:
    F2 18 § 3701 §§A1IV Robbery-Inflict Threat Imm Bod Inj
    M1 18 § 2701 §§A1 Simple Assault
    M1 18 § 3929 §§A1 Retail Theft-Take Mdse
    Her Formal arraignment is coming up. She also has an unrelated DUI charge that she plead guilty to and was just accepted into ARD
    Her plan is to plead out and hope for probation. She is one of those people who thinks she's smarter than everyone else.
    She won't stop stealing or using. This is he first time she was caught shoplifting, but she has been arrested before...Domestic Violence.

    2 questions:
    What are the chances that ANYONE would accept a plea deal in this case?
    How much time could she be looking at...if any?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Robbery and Assault

    We certainly can't tell the circumstances and I bet you can't either. She needs a lawyer BIG TIME with those charges. Frankly, I think the felony is "trumped up" a bit if the sole basis for that is the pepper spraying. This doesn't by itself constitute the "serious bodily injury" component of 18 PaCS 3701. She appears to be guilty of the other two charges (which as first degree misdemeanors are bad enough). Further, the fact that she already has been given ARD sort of precludes it from being offered again at this point and frankly, she's likely to get the DUI charge reinstated because she violated the ARD probation.

    You didn't mention as to whether she was convicted before on those DV charges. Even without priors, she'd likely be going to prison on the Robbery charge. With priors she's right in the boundary between RS (probation) and jail time on the misdemeanors alone. The time she could get (without the felony) is probably in the range of 2.5 years. I wouldn't be surprised at six months.

    She NEEDS a lawyer.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Robbery and Assault

    Major theft (2 cartloads,) she pepper sprays both LP and a state trooper, recent arrest, and other criminal record of violence?

    Enjoy visiting her through plated glass and talking on the phone, because that's the only contact you are going to have with her for a while.

    Even if the "serious bodily injury" part can be refuted, she's definitely guilty of section V of the robbery statute, which says "uses force ... however slight." So instead of a felony of the 2nd degree, she might be looking at a felony of the 3rd degree, IF her lawyer can successfully argue that pepper spray isn't "serious bodily injury." That's a big IF, and in that case, prison time is still likely.

    She will have to learn the hard way. By the way, you don't say what LP and the trooper did to her after she sprayed them, but in my neck of the woods, she would have been headed to the hospital after being taken into custody, and the felony charges would have been the least of her worries.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Robbery and Assault

    So deputy dog your response to a combative party is to apply excessive force regardless whether needed or not? Thanks for making cops look bad.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Robbery and Assault

    I missed the fact she was indeed charged with (v), it indeed looks worse that way though it's probably still rebuttable that the subsequent assault was part of them trying to apprehend someone who had already committed the theft. This is definitely the sort of thing that PA over charges with so that they can get an easy guilty plea to the other offenses. Still, she needs an attorney prior to the prelims. The prelims is where the lawyers and the DAs typically do their wheeling and dealing on the charges.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Robbery and Assault

    Quote Quoting jk
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    So deputy dog your response to a combative party is to apply excessive force regardless whether needed or not? Thanks for making cops look bad.
    No one mentioned excessive force except you.

    Someone who pepper sprays a police officer can reasonably expect to be shot, depending on the totality of the circumstances, and the fact that said person has now incapacitated the officer, who has a gun on him.

    In this case, it might not be reasonable to shoot her given the presence of the LP as well, but then again with the LP potentially incapacitated as well, deadly force is not entirely off the table. Even if we take deadly force out of the equation, it would be completely reasonable for the officer to use an impact weapon such as a baton and/or closed fist punches to contain the violent felon who is resisting arrest.

    Yes, if she didn't go to the hospital and require a stay there, she's damn lucky - and there's nothing excessive about that amount of force at all.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Robbery and Assault

    Quote Quoting DeputyDog
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    No one mentioned excessive force except you.

    Someone who pepper sprays a police officer can reasonably expect to be shot, depending on the totality of the circumstances, and the fact that said person has now incapacitated the officer, who has a gun on him.

    In this case, it might not be reasonable to shoot her given the presence of the LP as well, but then again with the LP potentially incapacitated as well, deadly force is not entirely off the table. Even if we take deadly force out of the equation, it would be completely reasonable for the officer to use an impact weapon such as a baton and/or closed fist punches to contain the violent felon who is resisting arrest.

    Yes, if she didn't go to the hospital and require a stay there, she's damn lucky - and there's nothing excessive about that amount of force at all.
    Yes, there is. I see you jump right to the deadly force That is about the stupidest thing ever. Here you are half blind whipping out the gun ready to shoot....oh...where is the purp......let me take a few shots over here....whoops, wrong person....let's try here.....finally got them.....and they deserved it.

    You are talking about being in a walmart and dealing with a shoplifter. The risk you present to all the dozens of people likely to be in the immediate area is not worth apprehending the thief, especially considering that people are usually drawn to a scuffle to watch.




    She will have to learn the hard way. By the way, you don't say what LP and the trooper did to her after she sprayed them, but in my neck of the woods, she would have been headed to the hospital after being taken into custody, and the felony charges would have been the least of her worries.
    Really? why is that? Of course if it did require force that injured the person, so be it but your statement is quite clear. There would be retribution for using the pepper spray. Not that you would use whatever force necessary to subdue them but plain and simple: they would end up in the hospital.


    a person never "deserves" to be shot. It may ultimately be required to and even cause their death but once you reach a point of: they deserved it; you are a bad cop. You do what you do because that is how you are trained and what is required in the situation. You don't shoot them because you think they deserved it.

    determining how much force is required is a case by case determination. The fact you can sit there and say; yep, pepper spray; I get to shoot them is so cowboy it makes me shudder. A cop, who is trained properly and maintains control of himself isn't going to say; there is this; I get to do that....They will assess the sitaution and using their training and while maintaining their whits about themselves will determine the best course of action considering all the facts available at the time,

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Robbery and Assault

    She has a lawyer. She was arrested for the DV, but of course, her boyfriend decided not to testify.

    Her bail was 10% of $5000.00

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Robbery and Assault

    If her actual bail was 5,000,that is sort of lot but giving all those charges it's actually not that high. Hopefully everything can work out for the best,even in the best of scenarios,she probably gonna have to a year at county. She needs to stay out of trouble,sometimes cases can drag on and if she keeps her nose clean it can help her.

    If she just let the security,call the cops and get arrested she might of only been charged with a misdemeanor. Maybe a felony,that probably could of got reduced to a misdemeanor with probation. If god mircalouses gives her probation or short jail stay,if she slips again,they are gonna throw the book at her.

    Quote Quoting flyingron
    View Post
    We certainly can't tell the circumstances and I bet you can't either. She needs a lawyer BIG TIME with those charges. Frankly, I think the felony is "trumped up" a bit if the sole basis for that is the pepper spraying. This doesn't by itself constitute the "serious bodily injury" component of 18 PaCS 3701. She appears to be guilty of the other two charges (which as first degree misdemeanors are bad enough). Further, the fact that she already has been given ARD sort of precludes it from being offered again at this point and frankly, she's likely to get the DUI charge reinstated because she violated the ARD probation.

    You didn't mention as to whether she was convicted before on those DV charges. Even without priors, she'd likely be going to prison on the Robbery charge. With priors she's right in the boundary between RS (probation) and jail time on the misdemeanors alone. The time she could get (without the felony) is probably in the range of 2.5 years. I wouldn't be surprised at six months.

    She NEEDS a lawyer.
    I heard of an idiot,spiting on a cop and getting 3 months to year,this girl pepper sprayed two people. Lord have mercy.

  10. #10
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    Jan 2016
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    Default Re: Robbery and Assault

    Thank you all very much for the advice.

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