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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
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    Default How to Appeal an Order to Repay Unemployment Benefits

    Long story short I was fired from a job in Michigan in 2012 and collected unemployment benefits. The employer filed to have it stopped, a hearing was held in my favor and benefits continued. I found work shortly thereafter; and ended my benefits. I moved 2 times, and about 3 months ago received a letter stating I owe over 13,000 for past unemployment benefits. I called the number, spoke with a rude rep who mailed me a "history" of my account - I want to know my options

    The nity grity -

    *Fired 6/23/2012
    *7/30/2012 Hearing held with Unemployment Agent - determined I am NOT DISQUALIFIED
    *08/31/2012 Administrative Law Judge affirmed 7/30 determiniation
    *09/11/2012 ALJ denied/dismissed rehearing
    *09/25/2012 Michigan Compensation Appellate Commission affirmed the ALJ 09/11/2012 order denying rehearing but conclude ALJ's underlying 08/31/2012 decision be reversed -The letter goes on to say " Claimant is not disqualified for theft under section 29(1)(i) however, I AM DISQUALIFIED under misconduct, section 29(1)(b)

    Obviously I am past my time to file an appeal on this, or request a rehearing what have you - but has the law been properly applied here? My concern is the employer requested an appeal regarding the rehearing being denied, and instead of having a rehearing they simply reverse the previous decision.

    The incident in question that I was fired for
    Employers version (summarized from the letter)

    *6/09 store inventory was missing 2 tv's.
    *6/10 I told a co-worker I was purchasing a Tv and already took it home
    *6/23 - Spoke to district manager and said my brother was wanting the TV and wanted to test it first
    *6/23 District manager found drawer $47 short - I admitted to taking it
    *After discharge on 6/23 I returned the TV - it was stuffed in a box and was missing the remote which I later returned

    My version of events (summarized from letter)
    *Acknowledged to removing the TV, not on 6/9 but on 6/22 to complete a store to store transfer
    *Denied taking TV for any personal use, or letting brother test it.
    *Could not recall which store I was transferring to (mind you this was @ hearing 1-2mo after fired, I didn't know which 1 of the 6 stores in our area it was but said "probably the X store (biggest store in our area)
    *Denied any knowledge of $47 missing - asked DM to check opening/closing log for cash counts as only 1 person has cash access at a time, the opener, and the closer, which I was NEITHER of in the 3 days before, or of termination.
    *Paid the $47 on the spot because employer threatened to not give me my final paycheck, and contact the police.

    Additional letter details

    *The letter states employer failed to present any direct eyewitness testimony establishing that I took the TV, or the $$, yet they found they met burden of proving by a preponderance of the evidence that I was discharged for misconduct.
    *States that my inability to pinpoint the transfer location made it un-credible - further more because the TV was opened (in the box) and missing a remote it seemed that I used the TV - Very common practice, we transferred open box (returned/display models) to the larger store (the one I said It probably was) very often.

    *States underlying decision is reversed however ALJ did not abuse his discretion in denying the rehearing, they affirm the order denying rehearing.

    *Says commission received a timely request to present oral arguments, they read and considered the request and conclude oral hearing is not necessary and have reached a decision. - I was never given notice of this request for oral arguments, nor did I have a chance to make my own oral arguments - and it seems the "things going against me" could have been clearly explained with said oral arguments.

    Can I file any sort of appeal on this even though I am past my time?
    Is it best to just file a waiver request for financial hardship?(single father 2 kids 25k/yr 2015 w2 income) HELP!

  2. #2
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    Mar 2012
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    Default Re: How to Appeal an Order to Repay Unemployment Benefits

    Quote Quoting ohsnaps86
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    Can I file any sort of appeal on this even though I am past my time?
    If you only found out about this mess yesterday, I'd have said you could appeal it, but I had trouble with "about 3 months ago received a letter," that's quite a while.

    Quote Quoting ohsnaps86
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    Is it best to just file a waiver request for financial hardship?(single father 2 kids 25k/yr 2015 w2 income) HELP!
    Same problem here. When you first get an overpayment notice, it comes with appeal rights which would have been the time to ask for the waiver. From 6/23/12 until "I found work shortly thereafter; and ended my benefits," did you even get $13,000 in UI benefits? I think there is something there, but you may not be able to use any normal process. You might have to get your state legislator involved.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
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    6

    Default Re: How to Appeal an Order to Repay Unemployment Benefits

    Quote Quoting chyvan
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    If you only found out about this mess yesterday, I'd have said you could appeal it, but I had trouble with "about 3 months ago received a letter," that's quite a while.



    Same problem here. When you first get an overpayment notice, it comes with appeal rights which would have been the time to ask for the waiver. From 6/23/12 until "I found work shortly thereafter; and ended my benefits," did you even get $13,000 in UI benefits? I think there is something there, but you may not be able to use any normal process. You might have to get your state legislator involved.
    The last I knew before approx 3 months ago, was that the employer lost the right to a rehearing. I moved to FL for a few years, started a family, and am now back in Mi. When I received the over payment notice 3 months ago, I called/spoke to the rep - she said I was past the 30 days as it was originally back in 2012 and sent a copy of the final determination / financial hardship letter. Fast forward to about 2 weeks ago, I finally received the letter/financial hardship form. I added it to the "stuff to get done this week", and then received another letter showing a recent addition of interest bringing the total over $14,000. I don't recall how much I received, I would guess less than 5000?

    If I fill out this financial waiver, can I include a letter regarding the case and clarify some of these issues? Would it make a difference?

    Thanks for the reply,

  4. #4
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    Mar 2012
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    Default Re: How to Appeal an Order to Repay Unemployment Benefits

    Quote Quoting ohsnaps86
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    If I fill out this financial waiver, can I include a letter regarding the case and clarify some of these issues? Would it make a difference?
    I think the issues you want to clarify already happened at the hearing. That's over.

    Financial hardship waivers are all about how you got the money awarded to you, not once, but at least 3 times (initial, hearing, rejection of rehearing), you spent the money, and now you have no money to pay it back. Not only that, MI is asking for $14K in my guestimation that is probably 3 times the amount MI gave you in the first place. Those are rip off interest rates on something that was nonfraud in the first place. I wish I could invest my money to get those kinds of return. You need to do something, but I don't know where to start because it looks like too much time has gone by.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    6

    Default Re: How to Appeal an Order to Repay Unemployment Benefits

    I can definitely see how time is against me!

    So if I understand you correctly, you recommend completing the financial waiver form, and including a letter in regards to being awarded 3 times, spent it, cant repay etc etc - or just stick to the financial waiver form? I found a copy online for reference - mine has my info pre filled out in the top pages/cover page etc.

    https://docs.google.com/a/miui.org/v...ODdiNjMxYmQ0Yg

    Thanks again;

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
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    1,360

    Default Re: How to Appeal an Order to Repay Unemployment Benefits

    Quote Quoting ohsnaps86
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    So if I understand you correctly, you recommend completing the financial waiver form,
    Just fill out the form, and see what happens. If you don't like MI's first proposal try again because they use the word "(re)determination" makes it sound like you can negotiate. That might be the better time to bring more to the table.

    Plus http://workforcesecurity.doleta.gov/...erpayments.pdf on page 6-14 MI's 3 year limit is almost there. If you can buy just enough time so they don't sue you, you just might be able to get the whole thing written off based on enough time having gone by.

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