Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 41
  1. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    7

    Default Re: Non-Profit Corporation 501(C)(3) Documents Availble to the Public

    Who would a "member of the non-profit" be? The nonprofit is comprised of Board members; there are no other "members", and it is virtually certain that none of the members, complicit in keeping all records of the nonprofit as secret as possible, would undertake a legal challenge against themselves. However, a donor might...tho' I'm interested to know if you know what the basic cause or causes of action would be under that scenario. Please advise if you can. And the minor share-reliably confirmed by tax records obtained via the IRS year after year.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    8,238

    Default Re: Non-Profit Corporation 501(C)(3) Documents Availble to the Public

    Quote Quoting Rocinante
    View Post
    Who would a "member of the non-profit" be? The nonprofit is comprised of Board members; there are no other "members", and it is virtually certain that none of the members, complicit in keeping all records of the nonprofit as secret as possible, would undertake a legal challenge against themselves.
    There are indeed nonprofit corporations with members who are not also sitting on the board of the organization. Not all nonprofits are organized in exactly the same way, after all. And there are instances where one board member will take legal action against the organization or its board; that will occur for example when one board member disagrees with what the majority is doing and thinks they are violating the charter/by-laws of the organization or violating the law in what they are doing.

    As far as donors taking legal action against a charity those actions are largely limited to fraud/misrepresentation claims. e.g. the charity represented to the donor it would use the donation for one purpose but then instead used it for something else.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    7

    Default Re: Non-Profit Corporation 501(C)(3) Documents Availble to the Public

    Quote Quoting Taxing Matters
    View Post
    There are indeed nonprofit corporations with members who are not also sitting on the board of the organization. Not all nonprofits are organized in exactly the same way, after all. And there are instances where one board member will take legal action against the organization or its board; that will occur for example when one board member disagrees with what the majority is doing and thinks they are violating the charter/by-laws of the organization or violating the law in what they are doing.

    As far as donors taking legal action against a charity those actions are largely limited to fraud/misrepresentation claims. e.g. the charity represented to the donor it would use the donation for one purpose but then instead used it for something else.
    Thanks, Taxing.....Unlikely to break the juggernaut with the options noted in your response. It amazes me to think that a small cadre, with their leader elected and others on the public's dime, could create a profitable sinecure essentially invisible in its protection from public scrutiny, and with the public's recourse largely wrapped around a costly and highly unlikely legal challenge IF a class or an individual had the resources to pursue it. Some animals really are more equal than others....

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    20,594

    Default Re: Non-Profit Corporation 501(C)(3) Documents Availble to the Public

    It's nearly impossible to keep unlawful siphoning of funds a secret. And this would require a good number of people within a law enforcement agency to be criminal if they were misdirecting funds. Given the number of professionals that would likely have to be involved, the odds of such an enterprise being able to operate in the shadows is exceedingly slim. I have worked within quite similar non-profits affiliated with law enforcement agencies, and they are not easily filled with like-minded individuals - and with a large Sheriff's Department, the number of individuals involved with a S&R operation with a donation bank account of a quarter million is likely quite large with a good number of checks and balances, or at least a good number of people that have access to the books.

    But, if one wants to see a nefarious conspiracy under every stone, there will be no shaking that thought process.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    8,238

    Default Re: Non-Profit Corporation 501(C)(3) Documents Availble to the Public

    Quote Quoting Rocinante
    View Post
    It amazes me to think that a small cadre, with their leader elected and others on the public's dime, could create a profitable sinecure essentially invisible in its protection from public scrutiny, and with the public's recourse largely wrapped around a costly and highly unlikely legal challenge IF a class or an individual had the resources to pursue it. Some animals really are more equal than others....
    It is not invisible to public scrutiny. The Public Records Act allows the public to get the documents from the Sheriff regarding what funds the Sheriff’s office provides to the organization and any other documents the Sheriff has regarding its participation with the organization. The public also may get information on the charity’s side through the Form 990 filings with the IRS and perhaps other information is publicly available, too. So there is a lot of information for the public to get if someone is really interested in it. What they can't get in this case is access to the meetings of the organization via the Brown Act. But then, they don’t get to sit in the Sheriff's office to watch him make decisions, either. The public is never going to get full access to everything but it doesn’t need everything to figure out if the public's money is being spent properly.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    7

    Default Re: Non-Profit Corporation 501(C)(3) Documents Availble to the Public

    Thanks for Taxing's and CDW's ongoing comments; they're valuable for their insights and particularly because they have the ring of truth coming from real world experience.

    With respect to CDW's notion that there's a nefarious stone for every conspiracy nut, it's no less a truth that complete power corrupts completely. I won't go into any more detail here about how the checks and balances have been co-opted and are not functioning, but you can bet that dozens of affected team members have, sub rosa, made it clear that they will not speak out for fear of reprisals and retribution and that, as in every instance where there is a self-serving system relying on tyrannical control of information and the public's access to it under color of authority, only one or two will have the grit, substance, and "the hell you will!" mentality to stand up for what's right. Can nefarious things happen when unchecked power is reinforced by selfish ego? Refer to Book I, Genesis. Can IRS tax forms tell the inside story? They cannot, without substantiating information denied to the public. Will a CPRA request to the Sheriff's Dept. reveal more than their annual commitment of several tens of thousands ascribed to the two employees labor who control the nonprofit's Board, and where the $200+K sitting in the nonprofit's private bank account came from and the details of how it's spent each year? It cannot. Unfortunately, the system's broken---the checks and balances critical to public accountability have been co-opted and driven asunder, made especially powerful by the effects of fear and a wholesale reliance on enforced secrecy. But no matter...the truth will come out eventually, and Nature changes all players, given enough time.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    8,238

    Default Re: Non-Profit Corporation 501(C)(3) Documents Availble to the Public

    Quote Quoting Rocinante
    View Post
    Unfortunately, the system's broken---the checks and balances critical to public accountability have been co-opted and driven asunder, made especially powerful by the effects of fear and a wholesale reliance on enforced secrecy.
    I disagree with you on that. There is today far greater access to information about what our public agencies are doing than there was half a century ago. Starting in the 1970s particularly the laws have evolved to make much more available to the public than had ever been available before. There is a lot of information to be had in a situation like this if someone has the time, energy, and patience to pursue it. But all the information in the world does no good if no one is willing to get it and look at it. If the system is broken then the greatest break in that system is simply the apathy of most of the public who have little to no interest in looking at the details of what the government does.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    7

    Default Re: Non-Profit Corporation 501(C)(3) Documents Availble to the Public

    I think we're having a bit of a communication issue here. Ascribing the breakdown with the particular case to apathy is to totally miss the point. There is fear, not apathy. And while some have tried to access information, that information has been thoroughly hidden away from public view and cannot be gotten, short of it being made available under a court order. No matter that things are better now than the were 50 years ago. In the present case here, we're not at 100 miles up---and when one tries at ground level to access what should be public info, there is none released. Thus a supposedly public-interest sinecure can be established by an elected official, Board-populated with his employees, and all without regard to public access while abusing its privileges and duties without fear of practical recourse. Common folk can't afford to try to sue City Hall, and so justice is abused in the present case and continues to be. TaxingMatters, this is not about apathy or attempts to get critical information---it's about the failure of the system to provide adequate checks and balances that would permit access to such information. Without that info, no changes will be undertaken by public outcry. Deny the information to the public, and you get to do what you want, in secret, for as long as you can keep the lid on. The Brown Act should have been written to permit open meetings of this nonprofit, but it wasn't. And the CPRA doesn't apply to it, either. If there was any apathy involved in this instance, it was with the legislators who missed the potential for this sort of abuse.

  9. #39

    Default Re: Non-Profit Corporation 501(C)(3) Documents Availble to the Public

    Well, some time has passed and a lot has been learned about the "non-profit". It seems that three of the non-profit board members are puppets of the Sheriff and that the Sheriff does control the gang of three. For many years the Sheriff had to allocate about $75K in the budget of the Sheriff's Office to cover the expense of operating a Search & Rescue organization. California Law mandates that the Sheriff of a County must search for missing persons. Each and every year that amount was part of the budget approved by the Board of Supervisors. Basically tax dollars going into the Sheriff's budget. You could see it in the budget documents. Back in those days there was still fund-raising going on, specifically to outfit the "Volunteers" with equipment and tools of the trade. The pitch to prospective donors was "the money is needed to purchase equipment for the SAR Teams which are 100% volunteers". For years the teams were outfitted via donations from the local business community and the public. Times were good, donations bought ropes and whistles and radios and other types of rescue equipment. To the tune of about $75K a year in donated funds. The fund raising contractor actually collected about $150K per year but they got to keep over 50% (that's another story).

    Then came the idea (I'll try not to call it a scheme) to create a 501c for the purpose of "raising funds". What transpired is that since it's inception the Sheriff's budget no longer has to include $70K for SAR. You'll find no mention of SAR in the budget these days. The non-profit checking account now pays for all expenses for SAR with the exception of paid personnel salaries. What used to be funded by tax dollars, fuel, food, office expenses, office supplies, computers, etc... is now coming from the donated monies. Also it seems that they are saving money for some large expense, some sort of Command vehicle or some other large expenditure that the volunteers have no involvement with. That is why they claim "there is very little money for the teams these past few years" but they are sitting on a quarter-million dollars....

    Nothing illegal here, don't blame the Sheriff for wanting to free up that $70K for extra ammo or a bomb robot, or maybe an extra trip or two to the Sheriff's convention. I think that they should be a little more honest and open with all of the donors and all of the volunteers whom are the real donors in the organization.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    20,594

    Default Re: Non-Profit Corporation 501(C)(3) Documents Availble to the Public

    Quote Quoting WhoDonnit
    View Post
    Well, some time has passed and a lot has been learned about the "non-profit". It seems that three of the non-profit board members are puppets of the Sheriff and that the Sheriff does control the gang of three.
    What is a "puppet?" If by that you mean people that agree with the Sheriff, that's not a surprise. It's also not unlawful. It is not uncommon for boards associated with businesses or government organizations to be staffed (legally) with like-minded people.

    For many years the Sheriff had to allocate about $75K in the budget of the Sheriff's Office to cover the expense of operating a Search & Rescue organization.
    That's actually a small sum. I'm surprised. It seems very prudent to me.

    California Law mandates that the Sheriff of a County must search for missing persons.
    Can you point out that code section? I know that the County Board of Supervisors "MAY" authorize the Sheriff to search and rescue people who are lost, but I am not familiar with any law that says they the Sheriff SHALL. It may exist, I am just not familiar with it.

    As a practical matter, all Sheriff's Departments I am familiar with in CA have a S&R function, and most are conducted with volunteers in conjunction with paid staff.

    Each and every year that amount was part of the budget approved by the Board of Supervisors. Basically tax dollars going into the Sheriff's budget. You could see it in the budget documents.
    Okay. Though, again, if he can do it on $75,000 either you are in a small county, or he is exceedingly frugal. Maybe he is a good fundraiser.

    Back in those days there was still fund-raising going on, specifically to outfit the "Volunteers" with equipment and tools of the trade.
    That is still done. Gear and training can be expensive.

    Then came the idea (I'll try not to call it a scheme) to create a 501c for the purpose of "raising funds". What transpired is that since it's inception the Sheriff's budget no longer has to include $70K for SAR. You'll find no mention of SAR in the budget these days. The non-profit checking account now pays for all expenses for SAR with the exception of paid personnel salaries.
    Some would say that is a good thing. With budgets and resources declining, it would seem a fortunate thing indeed if he could fund S&R operations exclusively through donations.

    What used to be funded by tax dollars, fuel, food, office expenses, office supplies, computers, etc... is now coming from the donated monies. Also it seems that they are saving money for some large expense, some sort of Command vehicle or some other large expenditure that the volunteers have no involvement with.
    If you do not like where the Sheriff is spending his money, you can speak to the Sheriff or to the Board of Supervisors as they have control over the budget. Clearly, these folks SEE the budget and have decided that the expenditures are acceptable.

    That is why they claim "there is very little money for the teams these past few years" but they are sitting on a quarter-million dollars....
    Okay ... they exaggerate their claims of poverty. Naughty, but not unlawful. You are certainly free to sic an investigative reporter on them and see if there is any interest in calling this malfeasance, or at least disingenuous. It may also be that the funds are in some way tied up - maybe in investment funds, materiel, or otherwise encumbered. It may not be liquid.

    Nothing illegal here, don't blame the Sheriff for wanting to free up that $70K for extra ammo or a bomb robot, or maybe an extra trip or two to the Sheriff's convention. I think that they should be a little more honest and open with all of the donors and all of the volunteers whom are the real donors in the organization.
    While I would agree that honesty should be the watchward here, as you seem to have concluded is what most of already knew - it's legal.

    When budgets collapsed about 7 and 8 years ago, agencies had to get creative to fund ancillary activities. S&R activities are one of those things that operates largely with volunteers and/or outside contractors. It can be expensive to use contractors or paid personnel, so they rely heavily on volunteers. But, even volunteers need gear and training. Basic services have suffered greatly in recent years. Listen to the scanner in most major cities and counties in CA these days and you will hear dispatchers reporting assaults, fights, robberies, and even shootings that have no officers to respond. It's actually quite illuminating and terrifying to hear what gets broadcast as a dispatcher asks for units to clear and respond. Budgets are tight and they cannot fund everything. If it came down to funding S&R and other ancillary ops through the main budget, they might very well go away. Or, the tough decision: Layoff patrol deputies so that he can fund gear for S&R. It's not a pretty call - especially when some 300 agencies in CA are understaffed and trying to hire officers and other personnel.

    1. Sponsored Links
       

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Creating a Power of Attorney: Do You Have to Record a Power of Attorney With a Government Agency
    By concerned1234 in forum Estate Planning, Administration and Probate
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-30-2015, 01:53 AM
  2. Regulations and Procedures: Can You Sue a Government Agency for Having an Unreasonable Rule
    By HobieCat in forum Government Agencies
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 12-13-2014, 08:41 AM
  3. Unemployment Benefits: How to Get a Writ of Mandate Against a Government Agency
    By TROYNICHOLS in forum Employment and Labor
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 04-01-2011, 01:24 PM
  4. TN Visas: Can a TN-1 Be Employed by a State or City Government Agency
    By mfogolin in forum Visas for Business, Tourism and Family
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-20-2009, 04:43 PM
  5. Criminal Records: Criminal Record for NYC government agency
    By pesamystik in forum Criminal Records
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 07-03-2006, 05:28 PM
 
 
Sponsored Links

Legal Help, Information and Resources