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  1. #1

    Question Can You Compel the Mother of Your Unborn Child to Allow an Adoption

    My question involves adoption law for the State of New York

    Long version -
    (TL;DR below)

    Hello, my little brother f'cked up seriously and I'm trying to do some research to help guide him through his pending fatherhood.

    He knocked up his girlfriend of three months(six months ago) and has no desire to be a father, nor wants to leave her to raise the child. He has come to terms that she is pretty much a horrible person and won't stay with her in the future. Her entire family is a bunch of women who got knocked up around 20 years old with no husband, she's 3rd generation of this. He wants to have an abortion or put it up for adoption. Neither of them are ready to be parents, both have crap jobs, no money, and really have minimal adult skills. Neither of them have a college degree, neither are registered voters or know anything about politics or the world around them, never done taxes, neither have their own paid health insurance, neither have a truly valuable skill developed, most adult things. Her entire family is happy for her and wants to keep the kid. My brother has the crazy idea that he is going to terminate her parenting rights and put the kid up for adoption. Is this realistically possible? Wouldn't the cost be rather large?

    She is like 21, no college education, recently divorced, already on multiple forms of public assistance such as food stamps + something to pay her rent + now I believe Medicaid, has no car or savings. Has a bi-polar disorder, doesn't drink because she becomes violent, and does drugs (at least weed, probably more). So as you can tell, she's a real winner. He actually called the cops on her about a week ago because he caught her smoking weed and the next day he brought over all their bongs and bowls and smoking items to store at my house. To be fair, he still smokes and drinks, works 30 hours a week as a cook at a bar, has no savings, no plans, can't pass a drug test, had to be given a car, and I think he plans to move back home when his rent contract is up, coincidentally when the child is due. I'm sure child support is going to be costly for him. My sister asked her how she planned on supporting the child and her literal and immediate response was government programs, as she works 20 hours a week as a hostess on the other side of the city because she doesn't want to try and get a better job(no car either, so either my brother takes her or she pays friends for rides with the no money she has). But this isn't really grounds to terminate her parenting rights is it? Trying to get an understanding of his crazy idea because I am 100% certain he hasn't studied this at all. What would it take for him to be able to terminate her parenting rights? Wouldn't it take long term problems and months if not years to accomplish?

    TL;DR

    My brother wants to terminate his ex's parenting rights of their impending child, then put it up for adoption.
    Realistically possible? Under what grounds? How much would it cost? How long would it take?

    Thank you so much for all of your responses.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Terminating Parental Rights for Unconsented Adoption

    Yeah. Your brother has no chance of making any of that happen.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Terminating Parental Rights for Unconsented Adoption

    Quote Quoting ConcernedBigBrother
    View Post
    My question involves adoption law for the State of New York


    Long version -
    (TL;DR below)

    Hello, my little brother f'cked up seriously and I'm trying to do some research to help guide him through his pending fatherhood.
    That's very kind of you.


    He knocked up his girlfriend of three months(six months ago) and has no desire to be a father, nor wants to leave her to raise the child.
    Nobody explained to him that having sex = chance of making small human?

    He has come to terms that she is pretty much a horrible person and won't stay with her in the future.
    I doubt she'll be too sad about that.


    Her entire family is a bunch of women who got knocked up around 20 years old with no husband, she's 3rd generation of this.
    And ... ?

    He wants to have an abortion
    If he's actually able to do that, let me know. I'll be his press agent.

    or put it up for adoption.
    Not happening unless Mama agrees.

    Neither of them are ready to be parents, both have crap jobs, no money, and really have minimal adult skills. Neither of them have a college degree, neither are registered voters or know anything about politics or the world around them, never done taxes, neither have their own paid health insurance, neither have a truly valuable skill developed, most adult things. Her entire family is happy for her and wants to keep the kid. My brother has the crazy idea that he is going to terminate her parenting rights and put the kid up for adoption. Is this realistically possible? Wouldn't the cost be rather large?
    Not happening. At all. Even if.


    She is like 21, no college education, recently divorced, already on multiple forms of public assistance such as food stamps + something to pay her rent + now I believe Medicaid, has no car or savings. Has a bi-polar disorder, doesn't drink because she becomes violent, and does drugs (at least weed, probably more). So as you can tell, she's a real winner.
    So he picked a female version of himself? Not uncommon.

    He actually called the cops on her about a week ago because he caught her smoking weed and the next day he brought over all their bongs and bowls and smoking items to store at my house. To be fair, he still smokes and drinks, works 30 hours a week as a cook at a bar, has no savings, no plans, can't pass a drug test, had to be given a car, and I think he plans to move back home when his rent contract is up, coincidentally when the child is due. I'm sure child support is going to be costly for him.
    I'm sure it is, yes. You know the best part though? NY is one of those states which doesn't factor in Mom's income when calculating child support. They simply take a straight percentage of the NCP's income. Awesome.


    My sister asked her how she planned on supporting the child and her literal and immediate response was government programs, as she works 20 hours a week as a hostess on the other side of the city because she doesn't want to try and get a better job(no car either, so either my brother takes her or she pays friends for rides with the no money she has).
    And this is your sister's business ... why?


    But this isn't really grounds to terminate her parenting rights is it?
    Nope. Not even close.


    Trying to get an understanding of his crazy idea because I am 100% certain he hasn't studied this at all. What would it take for him to be able to terminate her parenting rights? Wouldn't it take long term problems and months if not years to accomplish?
    Given that he doesn't have standing to terminate a darned thing right now, the question is moot.

    As and when he decides to establish paternity (or, as soon as the state does it for him whether he likes it or not), he can of course file for custody. Given what you've told us here he hasn't got a chance; he will however get parenting time if he wishes.

    Tell your brother to start saving.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Terminating Parental Rights for Unconsented Adoption

    ...yeah... thanx Freeman

    Dogmatique - "And this is your sister's business ... why?" Because it's our impending nephew. A good aunt and uncle care about family members even if they aren't here yet. My sister is concerned about her Nephew, that's why it's her business. Family sticks together, cares about each other, helps each other. Part of why I've been so active recently. Just 3 weeks ago I even got him a job at a fortune 500 company(Paychecks) and he was let go after 6 days because he couldn't pass training, which was hard, but still Wtf lil bro.

    "Nobody explained to him that having sex = chance of making small human?" - My siblings and I all went to top level private schools, he knows better. Worst of all, I employ one of his better friends as a part time assistant and he tells me he never uses protection. WTF!?!?!?!? Clearly he ****ing screwed himself and his impending childs entire life.

    "So he picked a female version of himself? Not uncommon."
    - Yeah, unfortunately. He's always had girlfriends that were...for a lack of a better term... better and smarter than him. We are blessed to be tall, in shape and good looking. Somehow he ended up a dumbass unlike myself(owner of my own business) and my sister (SU alum), but until now actually found decent women who showed him what's what. I guess he eventually found another dumbass who worshiped the ground he walked on and he ruined his life within 3 months of moving out.

    "Tell your brother to start saving." - Start saving what?! No money, no savings, no assets, no college education, no skill set. He is even 8k in debt from school and his failed attempt to go to a community college. Not only is he in debt, but he completely ignored his school loans! Only reason even he literally just started paying them is because my sister talked to him about his dumbassery. As I said above, I tried and succeded, and have been trying again to help get him a real job but he doesn't seem to want to help himself. I'm blown away.

    "he can of course file for custody. Given what you've told us here, he hasn't got a chance; he will, however, get parenting time if he wishes." - He doesn't want custody or parenting time. He's said his entire life he probably will never wanted kids or to get married. The only decent thought in his head is the kid is screwed with him or his girlfriend and her family. Foster homes and adoption aren't ideal, but 50 to 1 is better than straight zero.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Terminating Parental Rights for Unconsented Adoption

    Quote Quoting ConcernedBigBrother
    View Post
    "And this is your sister's business ... why?" Because it's our impending nephew.
    Well... great. You care more about the unborn child than your loser of a brother. You can show you care by sending your nephew Christmas and birthday presents, and offering to help his mom out when she needs it.
    Quote Quoting ConcernedBigBrother
    As I said above, I tried and succeded, and have been trying again to help get him a real job but he doesn't seem to want to help himself.
    So... drugs? Whatever it is, you can't care more about his life than he does. He needs to man up.
    Quote Quoting ConcernedBigBrother
    He doesn't want custody or parenting time.
    And he doesn't have to want either. He can simply pay his child support as ordered, or run up arrears and deal with the consequences of that choice.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Terminating Parental Rights for Unconsented Adoption

    "You care more about the unborn child than your loser of a brother. " - Well F*ck....

    "You can show you care by sending your nephew Christmas and birthday presents, and offering to help his mom out when she needs it." - I kind of want to do more than that in general, god knows our father won't abandon his first grandson. Best f*cking dad in the world right there. And I can't help the mom, she's a POS. She hates me entire family because of shit she made up in her head. She's already said my sister will "never" be able to see the kid. Obviously, that's not possible. But it's the thought that matters.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Terminating Parental Rights for Unconsented Adoption

    You told us that she's birds of a feather with your brother, and no doubt he's a POS, so you really didn't need to elaborate.

    Are you here to do more than vent?

  8. #8

    Default Re: Terminating Parental Rights for Unconsented Adoption

    I guess I am here to vent a little in a relatively private and semi discrete manner. But no, I am here for actual information. I spent about two hours this afternoon looking up all the information I could. Eventually got burned out and stumbled on to here, made a post and went and enjoyed my evening before checking back.

    Basically, I've come to the conclusion that unless she really messes up and breaks the law, it will be nearly impossible to terminate her parenting rights. Even if that happens, if her mother(maternal grandmother) is even halfway decent that is another huge hurdle. So regardless of it being nearly impossible, it will take an extended amount of time after the birth to build the case, then go to court. Which all takes time. Then, if somehow we win, she will have at least 6 months to try to turn her life around and fix whatever reason the parenting rights were terminated for, before the child can be legally adopted. So, if everything goes perfectly after she breaks the law and does something horrible, the kid will still probably be 2 before it can be adopted.

    Hoping someone would provide some magical information that I missed...

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Terminating Parental Rights for Unconsented Adoption

    What people here are trying to get across to you is that there is no "we" in the eyes of the law. There is the mother, your brother and the baby. That's it. In fact, your family meddling does nothing to help the situation.

    If your brother is unwilling to fight for custody then he will have none, though he will be ordered to pay child support. You father and your family cannot compel your brother to take an interest and cannot compel the mother to permit a relationship with your family, absent your brother filing for custody.

    I'm intrigued by the idea that you, initially wanted to strip this woman's rights, peremptorily, because your brother doesn't want to be a father. How on earth would you even thing that's a thing? As to terminating her rights, to what end? So your screw up brother can put the kid up for adoption? You have less of a chance to terminate her rights as a parent than you do of being struck by lightning. Even incarceration doesn't remove that right.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Terminating Parental Rights for Unconsented Adoption

    Quote Quoting ConcernedBigBrother
    View Post
    I guess I am here to vent a little in a relatively private and semi discrete manner. But no, I am here for actual information. I spent about two hours this afternoon looking up all the information I could. Eventually got burned out and stumbled on to here, made a post and went and enjoyed my evening before checking back.

    Basically, I've come to the conclusion that unless she really messes up and breaks the law, it will be nearly impossible to terminate her parenting rights. Even if that happens, if her mother(maternal grandmother) is even halfway decent that is another huge hurdle. So regardless of it being nearly impossible, it will take an extended amount of time after the birth to build the case, then go to court. Which all takes time. Then, if somehow we win, she will have at least 6 months to try to turn her life around and fix whatever reason the parenting rights were terminated for, before the child can be legally adopted. So, if everything goes perfectly after she breaks the law and does something horrible, the kid will still probably be 2 before it can be adopted.

    Hoping someone would provide some magical information that I missed...
    Ah, not quite.

    If Mom is unfit, she won't automatically lose her rights. What will happen, unless she's somehow dipping the child into boiling oil and gets caught in the act, is that the child will go to a more suitable environment temporarily. Mom will then get several chances to straighten out - the goal of CPS is to reunite the child with the parent whenever possible. There is no set timeline for this; I know of one case in PA where the TPR was initiated (by the state) less than 6 months after the children were removed and the foster family adopted a little over a year after the whole thing began. I know of another case where the child was reunited with the parent more than two years after the initial removal. Two. Years. Count 'em. 2.

    You do need to understand that neither you nor your family - including your brother - have any say over anything. Not a thing. Nada. Zilch. None.

    Mom doesn't have to allow anybody at all in your family - and again this includes your brother at least right now - to have contact with her child.

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