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  1. #1
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    Jan 2016
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    Default My Landlord Threw Away My Property Before My Move Out Date

    So I'm in a tricky situation. I'll try to keep it short and sorry for any typos.

    I subleased a room for a month and half from the principal tenant of an apt. We had an agreement that I was to stay until the end date on which he and his 2 other roommates planned to leave for good. From my understanding the lease used to be 12 months but was switched over to month to month after a year, which it had been at that point. The landlord was aware as early as 2 months prior that the tenants were moving out. January 1 was the move out date I was informed of.

    So long story short: I moved out most of belongings before I left for the holidays. When I came back to get the rest of my things and drop off the keys on January 1st all of my belongings in my room (which I locked), were gone. This was in addition to another tenants stuff who had been living there for a few months. Apparently this tenant did not pay the rent for December, so the landlord was upset to say the least. Unfortunately I wasn't made aware of this by anyone until yesterday. The landlord did not notify me of anything and broke down my doorknob to get in.

    I guess what I'm trying to figure out is if I have any leg to stand on and if I can sue the landlord or possibly the tenant I subleased from to pay for my belongings?

    Main Details


    - There was a written agreement between me and the principal tenant of my sublease including the move-out date. My rent was paid prior to moving in and was given to the landlord. The thing thats terrible is that I missed the fine print saying the contract isn't valid unless signed by the landlord . Although the landlord was well aware of me subletting.

    - Prior to moving in I had a meeting with the landlord and principal tenant where we clarified details of me subleasing and how long I would be there for (an oral agreement).

    - On his way out, the third roommate witnessed the landlord come in to paint the walls in addition to trying to get into my room on December 31. Apparently the principal tenant (the one I subleased from) gave permission to come in and paint the walls of the house at some point, however I was told this would happen after we moved out. On another note, this suggests that this process of removing my things by the landlord took place as early as Dec. 31.

    - I have emails with the principal tenant confirming our agreement, and texts of the end date. There was no discussion of a specific time on Jan. 1st. that I had to be out.

    ......

    Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated. I'm not sure if its even worth bothering about. Again most of my stuff was moved out, but to replace my things would cost a few hundred dollars at the least. It was just pretty disrespectful overall by all those involved. The principal tenant lives out of state and for the most part, I'm not even sure of all the fine details of whats been happening between the bad tenant and the landlord. I just know the bad tenant plans to sue the landlord. The third roommate ended up packing up a day early and leaving on the way out while the landlord was starting repairs. This third roommate has been in the dark about everything as well and doesn't recall any written notification of eviction or anything.

    If I was the landlord, I wouldn't have done this unless I knew I could get away with it. But on that same note, I talked to another renter near by who is friends with him and he explained to me that the landlord had to pay his mortgage today, which makes me think he was desperate to get his new tenants moved in quickly. In doing so he might have disregarded some necessary steps to make this whole process legal. He hasn't returned any of my calls or responded to messages.

  2. #2
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    Sep 2010
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    Default Re: Subleased a Room and Landlord Threw Away My Property Before Move Out Date

    If you substantially moved out, the landlord is likely to legally believe you had abandoned your tenancy early. Vacant properties are bigger issues than just the loss of rent.

  3. #3
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    Jan 2016
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    7

    Default Re: Subleased a Room and Landlord Threw Away My Property Before Move Out Date

    Well whats considered substantially? I only planned to live there for a month and half so I didn't have a lot of stuff in the room to begin with. But at the very least before I left there was a mattress on a bed frame with a few pillows (no sheets though). There was a couple of clothes and shoes on the ground, in addition to a few baskets with toiletries inside and laundry basket. There was even a curtain still up.

    But even if he thought I abandoned my tenancy early doesn't that require notification of some sort?

    Is he even allowed to enter the property before move out without my permission?

  4. #4
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    Sep 2010
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    Default Re: Subleased a Room and Landlord Threw Away My Property Before Move Out Date

    That's up for a court to decide if you push it, but it's quite possible you could be considered abandoned.

    Notification is NOT required in most places. Of course you blew off the prompt where the forum asks for you state name, so we can't really give you any ACTUAL legal information. Landlord-tenent law is variable by where you are located.

    And the last question is almost certainly YES even if you hadn't been considered abandoning the property.

  5. #5
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    Mar 2013
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    Default Re: Subleased a Room and Landlord Threw Away My Property Before Move Out Date

    Quote Quoting luludan
    View Post

    But even if he thought I abandoned my tenancy early doesn't that require notification of some sort?
    Maybe, but the laws differ from state to state and you ignored the question about your state.

    Go to the following list, pick your state and read what the law says about tenant's abandoned property. Then you can google the statute if you want to read more.

    https://www.cga.ct.gov/2006/rpt/2006-R-0164.htm

    Quote Quoting luludan
    View Post

    Is he even allowed to enter the property before move out without my permission?
    Yes, under a variety of circumstances, depending on your state laws. Look up the landlord tenant law for your unnamed state.

  6. #6
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    Sep 2005
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    Default Re: Subleased a Room and Landlord Threw Away My Property Before Move Out Date

    Quote Quoting luludan
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    I subleased a room for a month and half from the principal tenant of an apt. We had an agreement that I was to stay until the end date on which he and his 2 other roommates planned to leave for good.... January 1 was the move out date I was informed of.
    So the story is, you entered into a sublease for a room in a shared apartment, which you knew was going to be surrendered to the landlord on January 1. What time did you show up?
    Quote Quoting luludan
    When I came back to get the rest of my things and drop off the keys on January 1st all of my belongings in my room (which I locked), were gone. This was in addition to another tenants stuff who had been living there for a few months.
    So, even though you knew that the premises were going to be surrendered to the landlord on January 1st, you chose not to recover your property until that day -- at a time when the landlord had already been restored to possession of the premises and had cleared out the rental property.
    Quote Quoting luludan
    The landlord did not notify me of anything and broke down my doorknob to get in.
    The master tenant's landlord isn't obligated to tell you about anything. He's not your landlord.
    Quote Quoting luludan
    The thing thats terrible is that I missed the fine print saying the contract isn't valid unless signed by the landlord. Although the landlord was well aware of me subletting.
    Your landlord is the master tenant. His landlord's knowledge or approval of the subtenancy would not change that fact.
    Quote Quoting luludan
    Apparently the principal tenant (the one I subleased from) gave permission to come in and paint the walls of the house at some point, however I was told this would happen after we moved out.
    Had you been present and objected, the landlord might not have entered. You were not, and the master tenant gave his landlord permission to enter and repaint.
    Quote Quoting luludan
    On another note, this suggests that this process of removing my things by the landlord took place as early as Dec. 31.
    You can discuss with your landlord, the master tenant, whether he surrendered the premises on December 31 or January 1. Either way, his landlord entered with permission.
    Quote Quoting luludan
    ...but to replace my things would cost a few hundred dollars at the least.
    Should you prevail in a lawsuit, you're only going to be able to recover the depreciated value of the property -- so if it's "a few hundred dollars" to replace with new property, it's depreciated value may turn out to be a modest percentage of the cost of new replacement items.
    Quote Quoting luludan
    But even if he thought I abandoned my tenancy early doesn't that require notification of some sort?
    If your landlord surrendered the premises and either told the landlord or implied to the landlord that everything left in the unit was garbage, then it would be perfectly reasonable for his landlord to clear out the garbage. Many tenants abandon bulky items like mattresses, rather than moving them.
    Quote Quoting luludan
    Is he even allowed to enter the property before move out without my permission?
    Your landlord lived in the unit at least some of the time, and thus could enter any common areas as he chose. His landlord didn't enter until he was given permission to do so by his tenant.

    If you want somebody to tell you the specifics of your state's laws, you will need to belatedly follow the instruction to identify your state -- but you should anticipate that you need to start focusing on the actions or inactions of your landlord.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
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    7

    Default Re: Subleased a Room and Landlord Threw Away My Property Before Move Out Date

    Thanks for all of the feedback you guys, all of this is really helpful! I'm currently located in California. Just to clarify, my landlord, the master tenant on the lease, moved out of state.

    In regards to the time, I came around 3 in the afternoon. When I contacted the bad tenant, he had informed me that it was already empty when he visited at 9 am.

    But even so, unless there was any proof in writing or an oral agreement where the landlord had specified a time tenants needed to be out on the move-out date, the time I came by shouldn't be relevant. Legally speaking tenants have until 11:59 pm of that date to move-out and leave the keys for the landlord. So technically I had until 11:59 pm to move out the rest of my things and vacate the property.

    But heres an update: I just spoke to the (the main one) landlord and he said the move-out date the master tenant gave me was wrong and that the move out date was 31st. He also blamed the liability on the Master tenant who I had the sublease agreement with. I verified with the master tenant at least three times that it was January 1st. On the contract we had (which isn't vaild ), the writing specified that the agreement will "remain in effect until Jan. 1st." I have an email and text message from him confirming this was the date we agreed upon. The master tenant might be easier to go after, but again he's currently out of state so its probably not worth the trouble.

    Back to the landlord: even if the landlord is allowed to enter, at the very least he's not allowed to throw away our things. If the move-out date is the 31st like he claims it to be, he can't just throw away my things that day or even the day after. Clothes and furniture are not garbage. By CA law personal belongings include anything a person can own except land.

    From my interpretation of the law, if he thought I abandoned it which he claimed, he's supposed to notify the tenant(s) and safely store them. If I don't respond to his notification and the value of my belongings are below $300 then he's allowed to do whatever he wants. But that process hasn't even started.

    If I do win, at the least I'll get my legal fees covered, reimbursement for my property, and at the max $250 for each code violation he's broken.

    http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/l...shtml#endnote6

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    Default Re: Subleased a Room and Landlord Threw Away My Property Before Move Out Date

    The master tenant might be easier to go after, but again he's currently out of state so its probably not worth the trouble.
    but that is who would be liable to you for any damages. The landlord acted reasonably given the tenancy ended the last day of December. Your landlord, the master tenant, is the one who granted you occupancy until the first. Since he lost control of the premises as of 12/31/2015 midnight, he could not fulfill his promise so that is who you go after.

    The landlord had no contract with you.
    From my interpretation of the law, if he thought I abandoned it which he claimed, he's supposed to notify the tenant(s) and safely store them.
    Have you taken the necessary actions to claim your property? Did you provide the master landlord with an address to send notices? Was there any reason for the landlord to know the property remaining did not belong to the master tenant?

    have you even contacted YOUR landlord to ask what he may have told his landlord regarding the property remaining? For all you know the master tenant could have said; trash anything left.
    the writing specified that the agreement will "remain in effect until Jan. 1st."
    Oh, so this is all due to your mistake. UNTIL Jan first means it ends at Dec 31 at midnight. That's when Jan 1st starts and per your own statement, the tenancy lasted only until Jan 1. You would have needed the term; through, for it to include Jan 1.
    but to replace my things would cost a few hundred dollars at the least.
    so cut that in half, at least, due to you are due the depreciated value, not the replacement value. So, less than a couple hundred bucks. Have you asked the master landlord for reimbursement?

    From my interpretation of the law, if he thought I abandoned it which he claimed, he's supposed to notify the tenant(s) and safely store them. If I don't respond to his notification and the value of my belongings are below $300 then he's allowed to do whatever he wants. But that process hasn't even started.
    the threshold is $700, not $300

    have you asked the master landlord if he has in fact discarded your property?

  9. #9
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    Mar 2013
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    Default Re: Subleased a Room and Landlord Threw Away My Property Before Move Out Date

    Quote Quoting luludan
    View Post
    Thanks for all of the feedback you guys, all of this is really helpful! I'm currently located in California.
    Lesson for the future.

    NEVER rent a room in somebody's house. NEVER rent with roommates.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
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    7

    Default Re: Subleased a Room and Landlord Threw Away My Property Before Move Out Date

    In a perfect world that would be amazing but its so hard to find alternatives based on where I live.

    Updates:
    - I talked to the master tenant, my landlord, and he never gave him permission at all to come in to remove any of my things. The landlord left a note saying he would be having painters coming on the 1st, but thats all. One of the co-tenants said that the landlord just walked into the house on the 31st with no prior notification. He did not see him knocking on my door until he came out of his room to leave. The co-tenant didn't tell him to leave, but he didn't tell him he could be there either. The co-tenant was asked by the landlord if he'd saw me recently. The co-tenant said no but that he knew I'd be coming back on the 1st. I'm still assuming though that the co-tenant unknowingly gave him permission to stay by not telling him to leave.

    - And again based on what I've read he has to go through a whole process before having the ability to throw out our property. Even if its below $700. If he thought it was abandoned he has to notify the tenant, safely store it and give 18 days for the tenant to respond. If they don't, thats when he's at free will to do whatever he wants with my belongings.

    - He didn't have my permanent address, but a reasonable way to receive my phone number and email address from the master tenant. The main landlord has called and texted me before. Even if he didn't have a mailing address he is required to leave this notification at the address I was subletting at. This can take place after its vacant.

    - He also admitted to throwing away my mattress when were talking on the phone, I found a few things in the trash before I left and co-tenant saw his mattress in a random truck when he was there. Apparently one of the co-tenant's friends who was staying there offered to hold on to some of our items and store them outside the apt. He basically tried to use her as a scape-goat and made the assertion that she stole our things. He claimed there should be some around the house. However, I find this hard to believe because she doesn't even own a car, I found some of my belongings in the trash, and another co-tenant saw his belongings in a truck he knows doesn't belong to her.

    - Just to give you a clear picture of what was thrown out: kitchen-ware, a rug, a large screen TV, two chairs, and a small coffee table with books. Thats all in addition to things in my room and the other room of another co-tenant. So at this point its hard for me believe that he could perceive the place as abandoned, especially if the a co-tenant said he knew I'd be coming back on the 1st.

    - I think at this point the main thing I have to check out is what you were saying JK. As a subtenant can the main landlord be liable for my things as opposed to the master tenant? Again I'd much rather go after the main landlord rather than the master tenant. During my research I think I ran into something saying that subtenants have some type of protection if they've lived there for 30 days. I was there for 45.

    Here's another link laying out the steps he had to take as a landlord. http://www.charliedunn.com/_Forms/Ab..._a_Tenancy.pdf

    I'm calling a CA tenant/landlord hotline tomorrow. What do you guys think? Sorry for the typos!

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