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  1. #31
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    Apr 2012
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    Default Re: Can a Neighbor's Fence Put a Pre-Existing Fence Out of Compliance

    Mr. Knowitall - I thought I posted it on this thread already - but budwad actually posted it right above your post.

    "Prohibited locations. Barriers shall be located to prohibit permanent structures, equipment or similar objects from being used to climb them."

    So if the neighbor builds his climbable fence right next to mine - then my barrier will be located in a place that does NOT "prohibit permanent structures, equipment or similar objects from being used to climb them."

    And to answer Budwad - the neighbor BEHIND my pool - his fence is 10 FEET away from my chainlink - so if a child climbed his - they could not hop over into my pool area. The malicious possible fence on the side would be constructed 8-12 inches away from my fence there.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Can a Neighbor's Fence Put a Pre-Existing Fence Out of Compliance

    The logistics of constructing the fence with the "good" side facing you seems to prevent this from happening. Do you not have the right to prevent the fence company from trespassing on your property during construction?

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Can a Neighbor's Fence Put a Pre-Existing Fence Out of Compliance

    T53147 - Heh - you know - I thought about that - and being aggressive with whatever fence company he chose.

    But even if I could stop them from coming over - they could intelligently build the fence anyway - start at the front, and do board by board until the back, and then go around the back stockade fence and lean over and do the last two boards.

    Besides - I promised myself that I would not stoop to his level of harassing workers that come over - it is not the workers fault! (And yes, he has harassed contractors who have done work for me).

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Can a Neighbor's Fence Put a Pre-Existing Fence Out of Compliance

    Mr. Knowitall;929602]This conception that it would be "non-compliant" for the neighbor to build a property line fence comes from... where?
    using the "code guys" statement that the stockade fence would create non-compliant situation, that assumes "code guy" is considering the neighbors picket fence as enforceable under the requirements regarding the installation of a fence surrounding a pool. Using that premise, my position would come from NY code previously posted:http://www.dos.ny.gov/dcea/pdf/PoolsumUC0708.pdf

    page 4


    Where the barrier is composed of horizontal and vertical members and the distancebetween the tops of the horizontal members is less than 45 inches the horizontal members must be located on the swimming pool side of the fence;

    so, if one would object to the permit being issued for the neighbors fence (using the "code guys" argument it would create a non-compliant situation), the code board would have to rule one of a couple things:

    1. if the neighbors fence is in fact considered part of the pool installation, it must comply with the requirements of NY code and as such, cannot be built in such a manner disallowed by code for a pool barrier.

    2. it is not part of the OP's installation and therefore the construct is irrelevant in regards to the requirements of NY code and pool barriers

    If they rule under #1, neighbor installs the fence so it is not a problem

    If they rule under #2, they have ruled the pool installation will not be out of compliance. That would give OP a means to fight any attempt at code guy attempting to enforce a code compliance issue in the future.


    It isn't that I believe the neighbors fence would create a compliance issue (because I don't) but "code guy" has expressed his belief it would. This would force a decision to be made on the compliance issue and if it is ruled it would, prevent the fence from being built since it is what is in fact the non-compliant construct. How could the city allow a fence that has already been determined the design is non-compliant with existing code be built?

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Can a Neighbor's Fence Put a Pre-Existing Fence Out of Compliance

    The way you say it there seems so obvious and logical. If only logic was the way everyone sees the world.

    I will not pursue this issue on my own - now armed with some of these logical thoughts, I will get a lawyer to send a letter so I can get an official response and ruling on this.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Can a Neighbor's Fence Put a Pre-Existing Fence Out of Compliance

    It'd be great if you posted a follow up on this.

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Can a Neighbor's Fence Put a Pre-Existing Fence Out of Compliance

    Hah - you know, I definitely will. This thread took off in a way that I never anticipated when I first posted - and I certainly owe you all a follow up. It may be a few weeks obviously until I have a real answer - but I will let you know!

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Can a Neighbor's Fence Put a Pre-Existing Fence Out of Compliance

    Given the size of the pneumatic nailers they use, I cannot imagine them being able to do the construction. Even a manual hammer and nails takes more space than a foot.

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Can a Neighbor's Fence Put a Pre-Existing Fence Out of Compliance

    T53147 - while this may be a valid point - I want to stop this before it starts. To deal with it on a town level, not fence company level.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Can a Neighbor's Fence Put a Pre-Existing Fence Out of Compliance

    Quote Quoting budwad
    View Post
    Therefore, any action has to be taken against the person that is changing the statuesque.
    (Status quo.) Your auto-correct has an interesting sense of humor.
    Quote Quoting budwad
    The local official can ask the local jurisdiction attorney or the state's attorney for an opinion on the matter. But OP cannot. The construction code and zoning code, as written, is the law and the interpretation of it is not up to the code official.
    The local code does not appear to add any restrictions beyond state standards, and while it requires that pools continue to comply with the local ordinance there is nothing within the local ordinance that addresses the present issue. The question is thus the state's regulations, enforced at the local level, and for that it would be helpful for the local code enforcement official to get an interpretation from the state. However, while there may be cause to pursue administrative appeals and even to litigate the issue if there is an adverse finding, a finding of non-compliance can be found with an associated order to correct the problem or remove the pool. There's also a question of insurability -- how will the OP's insurance company respond when informed of the new boundary fence, or if they are not informed and learn of the fence's location when a claim is made?
    Quote Quoting budwad
    What a neighbor does on their property cannot compel the other neighbor to do anything even under the color of law period.
    This is correct -- the swimming pool and barrier must be entirely code compliant on the OP's land, and the neighbor's boundary fence must be entirely code compliance on the neighbor's land, and the question of whether or not the neighbor's fence affects the adequacy of the swimming pool barrier is not the neighbor's problem.

    ASTM, and a growing number of jurisdictions, are addressing this issue by explicitly requiring a clear area on both sides of the swimming pool barrier -- that effectively reduces the maximum size of a pool by imposing a setback for the barrier from the boundary line, but prevents a subsequent object or structure on the neighbor's property from creating a safety issue. I have read that the CPSC has recommended that governments adopt a rule requiring a clear area on both sides of the barrier, but I haven't yet found that recommendation.
    Quote Quoting jk
    View Post
    As i said; if anything would be non-compliant it would be the neighbors fence and as such should not be allowed to build it.
    While I find your theories to be interesting, I also find them to be unconvincing. The neighbor's fence is not a barrier fence for the pool. That's the chain link fence on the OP's property. The neighbor is entitled to build his own boundary fence on his own land, and nothing on his neighbor's land affects that right.

    I would start by trying to get the code official to seek clarification from the state. If that fails, budwad offered a good suggestion -- which is to try to convince the neighbor to build a fence that would not have impermissible horizontal barriers on his side of the property -- whether that's by getting a variance that would allow him to put the 'good side' of the fence toward his own land, or by convincing him to install a fence that has horizontal supports that are more than 45" apart -- offering to pay any additional expense.

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